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zen

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Hmmmm......
Second or third hand F16s?
Or maybe Trump in an effort to woo the Irish vote offers a US Air force base....?

Because opting in on Typhoon and collaboration with the RAF is about as politically charged a decision as you can get.
 

Foo Fighter

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Not to mention far too expensive. What sort of aircraft types can they realistically afford to buy and operate?
 

Fluff

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Maybe Austrians could share their virtually unarmed eurofighters?

or Putin will donate some mig29, just for the lol’s...

Trump could then offer F35, with an offset, that every F35 will have a sprig if lucky heather in the cockpit..
 

Archibald

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For some stupid reason I red ICE-land, no Ireland.
I would say:
-second-hand Grippens from Swedish storage (if such things even exist).
- replace the PC-9Ms with T-50 or M-346, give them AIM-9X.
- Otherwise - put AIM-9X on those PC-9M.
 

Fluff

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TU95 cruises at 700km/h PC9 500, with 2 aim9 450?

I don’t know if the RAF or BAe have any old hawks lying around? Some were even wired for aim9.

probably more realistic in terms of price.

if they had kept their spitfires they could have got a 1 for 1 swap going on.

how about some tornado adv, must be a handful lying around somewhere...
 

zen

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Not to mention far too expensive. What sort of aircraft types can they realistically afford to buy and operate?
Very old aircraft that cost a fortune to sustain operational capability...
Or trainers.
In this Ireland has options.
 

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I'd love to see them put a small sqn of Hunters together, easy to operate, and 4 Adens would be impressive for air policing......
 

Archibald

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TU95 cruises at 700km/h PC9 500, with 2 aim9 450?

I don’t know if the RAF or BAe have any old hawks lying around? Some were even wired for aim9.

probably more realistic in terms of price.

if they had kept their spitfires they could have got a 1 for 1 swap going on.

how about some tornado adv, must be a handful lying around somewhere...
An AIM-9 flies at mach 3+ so the Tu-95 has no chance.
 

jstar

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Hmmmm......
Second or third hand F16s?
Or maybe Trump in an effort to woo the Irish vote offers a US Air force base....?

Because opting in on Typhoon and collaboration with the RAF is about as politically charged a decision as you can get.
Shannon airport is a 'de facto' US Air Force station, and I suppose Trump could turn Doonbeg into a US Air Force base if there was money to be made off it.
 

kaiserd

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This is a non-story. My country can’t afford fighter jets, will never happen, everything else is pet agendas being pushed....
 

galgot

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Hmmmm......
Second or third hand F16s?
Or maybe Trump in an effort to woo the Irish vote offers a US Air force base....?

Because opting in on Typhoon and collaboration with the RAF is about as politically charged a decision as you can get.
Shannon airport is a 'de facto' US Air Force station, and I suppose Trump could turn Doonbeg into a US Air Force base if there was money to be made off it.
God, i remember passing the US customs there. Indeed , its like there is a piece of US land in the airport, weird.

On the topic , they could have rotating euro countries jets units for policing . A bit like NATO as in the baltic states.
 

fightingirish

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Ten to 15 years ago I would have suggested the British Aerospace Hawk 100 and the Hawk 200. Now I would suggest second-handed and cheap F-16s, Gripens and Eurofighters T1 or some Lead-in Fighters / Trainers like the T-50 or M-346.
galgot said:
On the topic , they could have rotating euro countries jets units for policing . A bit like NATO as in the baltic states.
One step towards creating the European Armed Forces. Since the rise of national and populist movements in the EU, IMHO no chance and no money for this idea in a foreseeable future. :confused:
 

CNH

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Why would Ireland need interceptors?
 

zen

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Why would Ireland need interceptors?
To maintain either the fiction of independent control over their skies or to actually gain independence over it.
Either way this is all for domestic consumption.
It certainly could be politically damaging to openly rely on the UK after the end of the Implementation Period. Especially in the face of Russian probing flights.
If there is an external element to it, it's likely US pressure on the one hand and a need to assert themselves within the EU.

Strategically Ireland's independence from other potentially hostile powers is in the UK's interest. Domestically Irelands independence from the UK is paramount.
 
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CNH

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To maintain either the fiction of independent control over their skies or to actually gain independence over it.
Either way this is all for domestic consumption.
It certainly could be politically damaging to openly rely on the UK after the end of the Implementation Period. Especially in the face of Russian probing flights.
If there is an external element to it, it's likely US pressure on the one hand and a need to assert themselves within the EU.

Strategically Ireland's independence from other potentially hostile powers is in the UK's interest. Domestically Irelands independence from the UK is paramount.
Apparently they are looking at a sum of 1 bn euros for the capability. For what? Do they think that the Russians give a damn about Ireland - it isn't even a member of NATO.
 

Grey Havoc

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Not only is our distance from NATO pretty negligible these days, but we are also a member of the EU, which Russia sees as an outright enemy post-2014. It doesn't matter to them that nowadays we are little more than one of many other states in the EU. In fact in some ways that makes things even worse.

At best we are seen by Russia as a relatively undefended flank of both the EU and the United Kingdom.
 
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Foo Fighter

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I understand that this may annoy some people, it is not meant to but to be a point for discussion. In my humble opinion, the Republic of Ireland is best served by one of two options.

1. Join NATO and allow base sharing with NATO troops/aircraft, ships.

2. Join the proposed EU military alliance and allow the same access.

This is contentious but allows for a cheaper method of securing the coastline/borders/airspace while bringing in something for the economy by way of troops etc buying goods and services within the republic. Sorry if I have upset anyone.
 

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There would be serious logistical support needed to realise the use of fighters; upgraded facilities at Casement, additional ground crew and mechanical support manpower, an improved training syllabus, probably a new advanced trainer other than the PC-9M.
I suspect what they are talking about is buying some jet trainers to complement the PC-9M (which are only 16 years old - and which better fit the majority of the non-jet fleet). Four M-346 would be just the job I would think. Chasing off a few Bears doesn't require much else.
 

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And sorry to say, but their best bet would be to put their new groundcrew through training with the RAF, if you dont operate 'fast' jets, its going to be a steep learning curve.
 

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" 2. Join the proposed EU military alliance and allow the same access. "

There's a dead parrot which won't fly.
 

zen

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Stepping aside from the limitations of real budgets for the moment....

The chief instruments of securing airspace is sensor and interceptors.
But principally those interceptors are missiles. Aircraft are for visual inspection and projection of control beyond the local.
 

CNH

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PS - from yr earlier post:

' Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar has warned that British flights could be banned from Irish airspace with a hard border as a result of Brexit, despite Ireland relying on the Royal Air Force for high-end air policing.'

Seriously?
 

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I'm afraid he did yes.

Pretty dumb, it prompted in UK, lots of comparisons, the one I liked was the Irish Air Corps, as I posted already, versus the RAF:

1593354605126.png
 

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As you can see, the BBMF has more combat power than the IAC....
 

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Stepping aside from the limitations of real budgets for the moment....

The chief instruments of securing airspace is sensor and interceptors.
But principally those interceptors are missiles. Aircraft are for visual inspection and projection of control beyond the local.
It sort of depends on what one means by "securing airspace." If you mean simply denying access to ones national airspace in open warfare, then surface-to-air missiles are major players. But if we consider the wider topic of ensuring sovereignty over one's airspace in peacetime, then interceptor aircraft are at least as important. They serve to inspect unidentified aircraft, escort intruders out, keep tabs on foreign military aircraft skirting the borders, etc. Simply using a SAM to shoot down any unidentified aircraft that doesn't respond to radio calls would likely be considered a crime, even if said aircraft did turn out to belong to a foreign military.
 
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Fluff

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Headlines like 'Ireland adopts shoot first policy' isnt going to go down well.

Air policing with an armed element is probably whats in mind. Also they mentioned Radar, I would assume the East side and NI is already covered by the UK, so maybe only need a couple of stations on the west, but I'm surprised the USA doesn't already have such coverage? That assumes they can agree to link in with the UK, which is not a given.
 

zen

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I would imagine that during the Cold War, plans were agreed behind closed doors to extend UK IADS over the whole of Ireland and Irish Military would have been intimately involved with such a plan.
But politically this could never be revealed.
 

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" I'm surprised the USA doesn't already have such coverage? "

From radar stations where?
 

Fluff

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I don’t know, ships, Northern Ireland? Space?
 

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PS - from yr earlier post:

' Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar has warned that

- British flights could be banned from Irish airspace with a hard border as a result of Brexit
- despite Ireland relying on the Royal Air Force for high-end air policing.'


Seriously?
ROTFL what an idiocy indeed. "How will you enforce your airspace then ? with armed-soldiers jumping to 35 000 ft on trampolines ?" (to you, Rogozin !)
 

kaiserd

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PS - from yr earlier post:

' Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar has warned that

- British flights could be banned from Irish airspace with a hard border as a result of Brexit
- despite Ireland relying on the Royal Air Force for high-end air policing.'


Seriously?
ROTFL what an idiocy indeed. "How will you enforce your airspace then ? with armed-soldiers jumping to 35 000 ft on trampolines ?" (to you, Rogozin !)
Everything the then Taoiseach stated in this regard was and remains accurate.
This is not the place (wrong website) for Brexit-related/ tinged discussions, and of facts the relevant contributors appear unfamiliar.
 

Fluff

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PS - from yr earlier post:

' Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar has warned that

- British flights could be banned from Irish airspace with a hard border as a result of Brexit
- despite Ireland relying on the Royal Air Force for high-end air policing.'


Seriously?
ROTFL what an idiocy indeed. "How will you enforce your airspace then ? with armed-soldiers jumping to 35 000 ft on trampolines ?" (to you, Rogozin !)
Everything the then Taoiseach stated in this regard was and remains accurate.
This is not the place (wrong website) for Brexit-related/ tinged discussions, and of facts the relevant contributors appear unfamiliar.
It would be terrible to be lost, and stop to ask for directions, to be told I was in the wrong town, and did I have my driving license, as it seemed to the other person, that I probably wasn’t competent to be on the road....

it was a political statement, from an eu politician, and was directly related to Brexit, and could only be interpreted as a threat.

U.K. might take a mild threat from Merkel, but frankly it got a brief laugh from Mrs May, and a suggestion he leave politics to the grown ups. There are multiple reasons why it won’t happen, not least and take your pick from- money,realpolitik, military strength( we could if needed escort our aircraft), trump, international accords, or simply doing the paperwork to get the right permits, if we aren’t covered by the EU.

storm in an Irish Sea sized teacup.....
 

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Getting the thread back on track, and taking the time to find the actual procurement plan, they are talking about ‘air combat interceptors’. This is listed in the things we might be thinking about section, along with new minibuses.....it does say that it would depend on additional funds, so I guess they have chatted it through, and come to the conclusion it’s not cheap...

for some reason ‘interceptors’makes me go all Gerry Anderson.....
 
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