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Industry Consolidations 80s-90s Chart - Interesting

Hobbes

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Byeman said:
Hobbes said:
That's not the cause of higher labor cost in the US. If health and retirement are funded by the government, they have to set taxes to finance these. A large proportion of these will be funded through income tax. You'll see that the income tax rate is much higher in Europe than in the US.
Huh? Income tax has no bearing on labor costs. Income tax is on the worker and not born by the companies and hence they do not pass it on.
Of course income tax has a bearing on labor cost. If X is a decent living wage, the company has to spend X+taxes per employee.
 

Byeman

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Hobbes said:
Of course income tax has a bearing on labor cost. If X is a decent living wage, the company has to spend X+taxes per employee.
Wrong, income tax burden only has a bearing on recuiting employees. It is not factored in labor costs.
 

Hobbes

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What's the point of comparing labor cost between countries without accounting for taxes?
 

jsport

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Myopic contrarianism designed to lead debaters away from any relevant point traditionally has been thought of as a spoiling technique to lure discussion away from salient arguments.
 

Byeman

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Hobbes said:
What's the point of comparing labor cost between countries without accounting for taxes?
I never said that. We are comparing labor costs born by the employer, which excludes income taxes paid by the employee.

In comparing two countries, labor costs are going to be higher for company in country that depends on corporate pensions vs country that has govt provided pensions or nothing. Same goes for health care.

The point is that US companies are burdened with corporate funded pensions and health care, where in most countries with lower labor costs, the govt provides those services or there is nothing at all.
 

Hobbes

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I could ask how you define labor costs. I've taken this to mean the gross income of the laborers, but obviously you mean something else. But I'm done with this discussion. We were supposed to be charting industry consolidations.
 

jsport

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There was recently an example of a positive step by the USMC in deciding to integrate their own airborne jammers, not relying on a traditional major system integrator. The public sector will have to step up in many directions, maybe a bottom up from the basic PM level will be the way it could start. Hope remains eternal.
 

Evil Flower

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Byeman said:
Huh? Income tax has no bearing on labor costs. Income tax is on the worker and not born by the companies and hence they do not pass it on.
That is totally incorrect. Income tax doesn't cover healthcare or pensions as these are paid separately on top of the salary. So the actual labour cost to the company is salary + social fees which in my case (Sweden) are about 1/3 of the salary. So if I have a salary of $3000 my cost to the employer is $4000.
 

Reaper

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What about the current status of the US aerospace industry? Are there enough orders, are people beeing hired?
 

jjnodice

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Reaper said:
What about the current status of the US aerospace industry? Are there enough orders, are people beeing hired?
One word: sequestration

http://washingtontechnology.com/articles/2012/06/26/sequestration-concerns.aspx

Sequestration is topic No. 1 among the federal contractor community these days. But there may be more than just talk surrounding the prospect of deep federal budget cuts should Congress fail to arrive at a budget for fiscal 2013 before fiscal 2012 ends on Sept. 30.
 

Reaper

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So, there's no money in the defence industry right now! What about the civil aerospace sector.
 

Stargazer2006

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Avimimus

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Interesting.

It would be fascinating to compare the size of the companies between 1990 and now (in terms of budgets). The question is whether it is a decrease in market size at the end of the Cold war, increased consolidation by larger firms (independent), or increased consolidation as a result of anticipating the effects of the end of the Cold war (combination).
 

Reaper

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L3 is doing fixed wing aircraft? Maybe supporting to build them, but they are not a aircraft system integrator!
 

Stargazer2006

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Reaper said:
L3 is doing fixed wing aircraft? Maybe supporting to build them, but they are not a aircraft system integrator!
I kind of remember they are (were?) involved in Optionally Piloted Vehicles, which they inherited from the former Aeromet.
 

Reaper

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Also I wonder if you could count American Eurocopter now as a prime contractor, after selling the UH-72.
 

Bill Walker

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Reaper said:
Also I wonder if you could count American Eurocopter now as a prime contractor, after selling the UH-72.
I think that depends on how you define prime contractor. The UH-72 entire power train, flight control and structural design come from Germany. AEC is, to me, an assembly line and completions centre. From discussions with their engineering department, they are a long ways from ever developing a new helicopter, or even doing major mods.
 

Reaper

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The UH-72 entire power train, flight control and structural design come from Germany.
and we are really proud, that the Americans are not only buying our cars! :)
 

GTX

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Has anyone seen/produced a more up-to-date version of these given recent mergers/acquisitions such as that with Goodrich & Hamilton Sundstrand a few years back or even those this year?
 

trexslee

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During these consolidations, Air International ran a cartoon making light of the end result. It depicted a small aircraft with "British Aerospace" painted on the fuselage being passed on the taxiway by an enormous superjumbo painted with the name "McDohop Boheed". I'll try to post it if I can find it.
Your description of that cartoon actually sounds a lot like the concept picture of British Airways' 3 deck megaliner passing by a much smaller plane from FLIGHT International in 1992. And here it is.
Screen Shot 2019-05-18 at 4.20.38 PM.png
 
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