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HyFly

sferrin

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Pictures of a captive carry test and a test launch (tested the booster only).
 

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mz

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There's been some talk around about some Boeing-built HyFly's planned free flights being unmentioned and for example Designation Systems stops the flights at 2005. It did try to fly in 2007 and 2008 but there were some kind of failures in the engine.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/02/11/221478/boeings-hyfly-hypersonic-missile-fails-in-bid-for-mach-6.html:
I do not know if more flights are planned.

Yet the Darpa page says:
Specifically, the program demonstrated an F-15 launched missile configuration with a range of 400 nautical miles, a maximum sustainable cruise speed in excess of Mach 6, and the ability to accurately terminate the missile on a GPS guided impact target.
http://www.darpa.mil/tto/programs/hyfly/index.htm
Maybe they had ground demonstrations for Mach 6 sustained?

On the other hand, ATK:s FASTT (which is "Within the HyFly program") has successfully flown a hydrocarbon ramjet at Mach 5.5:

The FASTT vehicle was approximately 106" long and 11" in diameter. It integrated a Scramjet engine into a missile
configuration. After separating from its booster rocket at more than 60,000 feet, the Scramjet engine ignited and propelled the vehicle at approximately 5,300 feet per second -- or Mach 5.5. Using JP-10 fuel, the Scramjet flew for at least 15 seconds while critical engineering data was captured via on-board sensors and tracking radars. The vehicle continued in stable flight mode until it splashed down in the Atlantic Ocean.
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=18534

ATK page has even a picture:
http://www.atk.com/Customer_Solutions_MissionSystems/cs_ms_w_hs_fastt.asp
The inlets are somewhat different than Boeing HyFly.

Just putting these here for reference to make a more complete picture, as there are only some mentions around the forum.

First Boeing HyFly, then ATK FASTT
 

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sferrin

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mz said:
There's been some talk around about some Boeing-built HyFly's planned free flights being unmentioned and for example Designation Systems stops the flights at 2005. It did try to fly in 2007 and 2008 but there were some kind of failures in the engine.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/02/11/221478/boeings-hyfly-hypersonic-missile-fails-in-bid-for-mach-6.html:
I do not know if more flights are planned.

Yet the Darpa page says:
Specifically, the program demonstrated an F-15 launched missile configuration with a range of 400 nautical miles, a maximum sustainable cruise speed in excess of Mach 6, and the ability to accurately terminate the missile on a GPS guided impact target.
http://www.darpa.mil/tto/programs/hyfly/index.htm
Maybe they had ground demonstrations for Mach 6 sustained?

On the other hand, ATK:s FASTT (which is "Within the HyFly program") has successfully flown a hydrocarbon ramjet at Mach 5.5:

The FASTT vehicle was approximately 106" long and 11" in diameter. It integrated a Scramjet engine into a missile
configuration. After separating from its booster rocket at more than 60,000 feet, the Scramjet engine ignited and propelled the vehicle at approximately 5,300 feet per second -- or Mach 5.5. Using JP-10 fuel, the Scramjet flew for at least 15 seconds while critical engineering data was captured via on-board sensors and tracking radars. The vehicle continued in stable flight mode until it splashed down in the Atlantic Ocean.
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=18534

ATK page has even a picture:
http://www.atk.com/Customer_Solutions_MissionSystems/cs_ms_w_hs_fastt.asp
The inlets are somewhat different than Boeing HyFly.

Just putting these here for reference to make a more complete picture, as there are only some mentions around the forum.

First Boeing HyFly, then ATK FASTT

Your post seems to generate more questions than it answers. ??? AFAIK there were two flights of HyFly both of which failed due to reasons unrelated to the propulsion system specifically. Flight three was suppose to happen sometime between a couple months ago and any day now IIRC but I've heard nothing about it. There are so many acronyms for vehicles and engines floating around these days it's hard to keep them straight. ATK had something like a "choked ramjet" or some such mentioned as an alternative propulsion to the dual combustion ramjet/scramjet on HyFly (which could account for the same design being pictured on ATKs site) but they've since removed that text from their site.
edit: come to think of it maybe ATKs ramjet thing was an alternative to the hydrocarbon scramjet on the X-51. Jeez, I oughta take notes instead of just trying to remember all this stuff.
 

mz

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I was a bit unclear. The Flight article from February 2008 mentions:
The January 16 flight was the last under the HyFly programme, which was designed to demonstrate a missile-like vehicle with a range of 400nm (740km) and a maximum cruise speed exceeding Mach 6. The previous flight, in September 2007, failed to meet its objectives.
and
"The scramjet engine did not operate as expected and, after approximately 58 seconds of flight, the vehicle impacted the ocean," says the US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. "We're reviewing flight data and no further details are available.

In the September flight, the booster seperated and DCR ignited, but did not accelerate the vehicle as planned. Two previous test flights, in 2005, had demonstrated safe separation from the F-15E and verified booster rocket performance.

So the two last flights were in 2007 and 2008, both had problems. The 2005 flights didn't have the scramjet but were system tests.
 

sferrin

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mz said:
I was a bit unclear. The Flight article from February 2008 mentions:
The January 16 flight was the last under the HyFly programme, which was designed to demonstrate a missile-like vehicle with a range of 400nm (740km) and a maximum cruise speed exceeding Mach 6. The previous flight, in September 2007, failed to meet its objectives.
and
"The scramjet engine did not operate as expected and, after approximately 58 seconds of flight, the vehicle impacted the ocean," says the US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. "We're reviewing flight data and no further details are available.

In the September flight, the booster seperated and DCR ignited, but did not accelerate the vehicle as planned. Two previous test flights, in 2005, had demonstrated safe separation from the F-15E and verified booster rocket performance.

So the two last flights were in 2007 and 2008, both had problems. The 2005 flights didn't have the scramjet but were system tests.

The "last two" flights were the only two flights. One failure was due to a fuel pump as I recall. DARPA had then considered cancelling the program (which was stupid IMO because neither failure had anything to do with what the vehicle was designed to test) but Boeing had hardware for a third so DARPA said in essence "okay, we'll fly it". That's the third flight which supposedly was going to be anytime now.
 

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'bout damn time we got some news. Third flight is suppose to be this year. Now if we could hear something about RATTLRS.
 

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DSE

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sferrin said:
'bout damn time we got some news. Third flight is suppose to be this year.

Unfortunately as posted in the X-51 thread HyFly was 0 for 3, this time because the booster failed to ignite.

"Darpa says the missile was released as planned at 40,000 ft., but booster initiation failed. “Preliminary test data indicates that, following release, the [on-vehicle flight] software detected that internal battery voltage was too low… [which] prompted the software to abort motor ignition,” the agency says in a statement."

FWIW, here is a NATA RTO document appendix with some HyFly info. http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public/PubFullText/RTO/EN/RTO-EN-AVT-116/EN-AVT-116-02-APP-05.pdf
 

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Recently came across this graphic:
 

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RanulfC

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mz said:
Maybe they had ground demonstrations for Mach 6 sustained?
According to: http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/hyfly.html
The sustained flight at altitude was only from a ground test wind tunnel:
The DCR concept was developed by the Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) of the Johns Hopkins University, and in May 2002, the APL successfully tested the HyFly engine in a windtunnel at a simulated speed and altitude of Mach 6.5 and 27400 m (90000 ft).

On the other hand, ATK:s FASTT (which is "Within the HyFly program") has successfully flown a hydrocarbon ramjet at Mach 5.5:

The FASTT vehicle was approximately 106" long and 11" in diameter. It integrated a Scramjet engine into a missile
configuration. After separating from its booster rocket at more than 60,000 feet, the Scramjet engine ignited and propelled the vehicle at approximately 5,300 feet per second -- or Mach 5.5. Using JP-10 fuel, the Scramjet flew for at least 15 seconds while critical engineering data was captured via on-board sensors and tracking radars. The vehicle continued in stable flight mode until it splashed down in the Atlantic Ocean.
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=18534
Note: According to MY 'converter' program 5300 fps is only Mach 4.8 so it would seem the SpaceRef figures are incorrect. The quoted above (designation-systems) website has the following note:
To evaluate the airframe at high speeds before actual flight tests, unpowered subscale HyFly vehicles were launched by ATK atop two-stage Terrier-Orion sounding rockets to speeds of Mach 6 at 18300 m (60000 ft). The latter activities were made under HyFly's FASTT (Freeflight Atmospheric Scramjet Test Technique) sub-program. FASTT culminated in December 2005 with the launch of a subscale live DCR, which flew for 15 seconds under scramjet power at 5815 km/h (5300 fps) and 19200 m (63000 ft).

So far as I can find no futher work on the Duel-Combustion-Ramjet was scheduled or done.

Randy
 

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RanulfC said:
Note: According to MY 'converter' program 5300 fps is only Mach 4.8 so it would seem the SpaceRef figures are incorrect.

Just velocity is not sufficient, you need an altitude and an atmospheric model to get Mach #.
 

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sferrin said:


That was just one of the presentations from the Flight Test Programs portion of the Fundamentals short course:

http://research.nianet.org/~grossman/Fundamentals/Hypersonic%20Flight%20Test/Hypersonic%20Flight%20Test.html

U.S. Hypersonic Flight Test Programs

X-51 (USAF/P&W/Boeing) presented by Captain Joseph Hank
Download X-51 pdf
Download X-51 movie1 Download X-51 movie2


FALCON (DARPA/USAF) presented by Sue Morris
Download not available

Hy Fly (AHU/JHU, Boeing, Aerojet) presented by Dave VanWie
Download HyFly pdf Download HyFly ppt Download HyFly movie

FASTT (ATK-GASL) presented by Robert Foelsche
Download FASTT pdf Download FASTT ppt Download FASTT movie

X-43A (NASA) presented by Ken Rock
Download X 43-A pdf

HiFire (USAF/NASA, Australia) presented by Tom Jackson
Download HiFIRE pdf Download HiFIRE ppt

Hi-V (ATK-GASL/UVa/VT) presented by Chris Goyne
Download Hi-V pdf Download Hi-V ppt
 

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sferrin

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DSE said:
sferrin said:


That was just one of the presentations from the Flight Test Programs portion of the Fundamentals short course:

http://research.nianet.org/~grossman/Fundamentals/Hypersonic%20Flight%20Test/Hypersonic%20Flight%20Test.html

U.S. Hypersonic Flight Test Programs

X-51 (USAF/P&W/Boeing) presented by Captain Joseph Hank
Download X-51 pdf
Download X-51 movie1 Download X-51 movie2


FALCON (DARPA/USAF) presented by Sue Morris
Download not available

Hy Fly (AHU/JHU, Boeing, Aerojet) presented by Dave VanWie
Download HyFly pdf Download HyFly ppt Download HyFly movie

FASTT (ATK-GASL) presented by Robert Foelsche
Download FASTT pdf Download FASTT ppt Download FASTT movie

X-43A (NASA) presented by Ken Rock
Download X 43-A pdf

HiFire (USAF/NASA, Australia) presented by Tom Jackson
Download HiFIRE pdf Download HiFIRE ppt

Hi-V (ATK-GASL/UVa/VT) presented by Chris Goyne
Download Hi-V pdf Download Hi-V ppt

Any working links to these? :eek:
 

flateric

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sferrin said:
Any working links to these? :eek:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/68a8p4isqsjou8p/Flight%20Test%20Programs.rar?dl=0
 

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The U.S. Navy’s Contribution to Airbreathing Missile Propulsion Technology; Ronald S. Fry∗
The Johns Hopkins University, Columbia, MD; AIAA Centennial of Naval Aviation Forum "100 Years of Achievement and Progress" 21 - 22 September 2011, Virginia Beach, VA


U.S. Navy operational airbreathing missile systems were increased since 2004 with the addition of the anti-ship cruise missile threat simulator GQM-163A Coyote SSST. The U.S. Navy high speed flight-testing technology base has been enhanced with the addition of the HyFly flight success to Mach 5+.....

Summary

The U.S. Navy has contributed to the considerable advances made in airbreathing propulsion technology over the years and particularly in flight-demonstrated technologies in the last 10 years. Developing advanced high speed missiles was one of the initial motivations for airbreathing propulsion. It remains as an important challenge today due to the current international threat scenarios. Particularly significant for missile applications are the successes of U.S. Navy flight-testing with the hydrocarbon-fueled applications GQM-163A Coyote SSST to Mach 2.8 and the HyFly flight demonstrator to Mach 5+. Equally significant for space access are the successes of NASA flight- testing with the hydrogen-fueled applications X-43 Hyper-X at Mach 7-10 that could have applications to future global reach scenarios.
 

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bring_it_on

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Flutter and Divergence Assessment of the HyFly Missile

https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2009-2462
 

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sferrin

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bring_it_on said:
The U.S. Navy’s Contribution to Airbreathing Missile Propulsion Technology; Ronald S. Fry∗
The Johns Hopkins University, Columbia, MD; AIAA Centennial of Naval Aviation Forum "100 Years of Achievement and Progress" 21 - 22 September 2011, Virginia Beach, VA


U.S. Navy operational airbreathing missile systems were increased since 2004 with the addition of the anti-ship cruise missile threat simulator GQM-163A Coyote SSST. The U.S. Navy high speed flight-testing technology base has been enhanced with the addition of the HyFly flight success to Mach 5+.....

Summary

The U.S. Navy has contributed to the considerable advances made in airbreathing propulsion technology over the years and particularly in flight-demonstrated technologies in the last 10 years. Developing advanced high speed missiles was one of the initial motivations for airbreathing propulsion. It remains as an important challenge today due to the current international threat scenarios. Particularly significant for missile applications are the successes of U.S. Navy flight-testing with the hydrocarbon-fueled applications GQM-163A Coyote SSST to Mach 2.8 and the HyFly flight demonstrator to Mach 5+.

Interesting that AvWeek never reported on any HyFly test vehicle breaking Mach 5. As I recall, it was three attempts and three failures, with one dropping off the pylon like a dumb bomb, and falling into the ocean. Are we sure this guy has his information correct? ???
 

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sferrin said:
Interesting that AvWeek never reported on any HyFly test vehicle breaking Mach 5. As I recall, it was three attempts and three failures, with one dropping off the pylon like a dumb bomb, and falling into the ocean. Are we sure this guy has his information correct? ???

His background and the relation between his employer (at the time), and the HyFly program and concept lends some credibility to his claims.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronaldfry
http://www.jhuapl.edu/newscenter/pressreleases/2002/020617.asp
 

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There was a 50% scale model of HyFly that got close to Mach 5.5. Maybe that's what he's referring to?

http://my.fit.edu/~dkirk/4261/Lectures/hyfly.pdf
 

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TomS said:
There was a 50% scale model of HyFly that got close to Mach 5.5. Maybe that's what he's referring to?

http://my.fit.edu/~dkirk/4261/Lectures/hyfly.pdf

That must be it. When one reads, "HyFly missile" the F-15-launched test vehicle is what generally comes to mind I'd think, not a sounding rocket-launched subscale model. :p
 

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Both the 50% and 100% TV's would be important from a propulsion perspective.
 

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bring_it_on said:
Both the 50% and 100% TV's would be important from a propulsion perspective.

True. So would successfully flying a fully integrated test vehicle.
 

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Scramjet reaches Mach 5.5; Jane's Missiles and Rockets; 23-Jan-2006

The joint US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) and Office of Naval Research (ONR) Freeflight Atmospheric Scramjet Test Technique (FASTT) project has conducted the world's first flight of an air-breathing, scramjet-powered vehicle using liquid hydrocarbon fuel.

FASTT is an activity within the DARPA/US Navy Hypersonic Flight Demonstration (HyFly) programme. As the system integrator, ATK designed and built the FASTT vehicle. A subscale derivative of the dual combustor ramjet, it measured about 2.7 m in length and 28 cm in diameter. It integrated a scramjet engine into a missile configuration.

This was the first time that ATK had complete design authority over the hypersonic scramjet propulsion system and the airframe. The company also acted as the mission manager for both the launch and flight of the test vehicle, including development of test plans and co-ordination of all design and mission-readiness reviews.

Other members of the team included DTI Associates (Terrier-Orion vehicle design and integration), NASA Wallops Flight Facility (flight-test support) and Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory (technical support).

Following a surface launch from the NASA Wallops Flight Facility, Wallops Island, Virginia, on 10 December 2005, the FASTT vehicle was boosted to scramjet operating speed by a two-stage, Terrier-Orion unguided solid-rocket system. The test was intended to demonstrate the feasibility of using sounding rockets as a low-cost approach to hypersonic flight testing.

Following separation from the booster, the vehicle jettisoned its air-inlet shroud and the scramjet engine ignited, propelling the vehicle to a speed of 5,800 km/h (Mach 5.5), at an altitude of 63,000 ft. Fuelled by JP-10 hydrocarbon fuel, the vehicle flew for more than 15 seconds under scramjet power while engineering data was captured via onboard sensors and tracking radars. The vehicle continued in stable flight mode until it splashed down in the Atlantic Ocean.
 

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Yeah, that was over a decade ago. At one time they were working on HyFly, RATTLRS, X-43, X-51, all with flight vehicles. Just seems like it's been mostly crickets since the last X-51 flight. ???
 

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sferrin said:
Yeah, that was over a decade ago. At one time they were working on HyFly, RATTLRS, X-43, X-51, all with flight vehicles. Just seems like it's been mostly crickets since the last X-51 flight. ???

Not on the development side, they are working and have invested quite a sizable amount on the three programs that we know of and are preparing to flight test in the next couple of years. Whether that is sustained once they transition from DARPA to the USAF remains to be seen.
 

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bring_it_on said:
sferrin said:
Yeah, that was over a decade ago. At one time they were working on HyFly, RATTLRS, X-43, X-51, all with flight vehicles. Just seems like it's been mostly crickets since the last X-51 flight. ???

Not on the development side, they are working and have invested quite a sizable amount on the three programs that we know of and are preparing to flight test in the next couple of years. Whether that is sustained once they transition from DARPA to the USAF remains to be seen.

I just recall that when they were working those four previously mentioned vehicles there was information on them plastered far and wide. Wind tunnel models, renderings of actual vehicles (rather than some notional fast thing), press releases, etc. There doesn't appear to be much of that on anything these days. Have to dig through budget documents to even find evidence of them.
 

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I suspect that all those previous programs were aimed individually at gaining test information for a segment of hypersonic flight or engine performance. We engineers like to constrain variables to reduce uncertainty in the results of the tests. Once they're comfortable with the results they'll move on and start integrating what they learned into a more comprehensive vehicle that will evolve into a weapon system. I don't expect everything to be in the public domain and in fact they may be just cover for the real activities. Who knows?
 

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sferrin said:
bring_it_on said:
sferrin said:
Yeah, that was over a decade ago. At one time they were working on HyFly, RATTLRS, X-43, X-51, all with flight vehicles. Just seems like it's been mostly crickets since the last X-51 flight. ???

Not on the development side, they are working and have invested quite a sizable amount on the three programs that we know of and are preparing to flight test in the next couple of years. Whether that is sustained once they transition from DARPA to the USAF remains to be seen.

I just recall that when they were working those four previously mentioned vehicles there was information on them plastered far and wide. Wind tunnel models, renderings of actual vehicles (rather than some notional fast thing), press releases, etc. There doesn't appear to be much of that on anything these days. Have to dig through budget documents to even find evidence of them.

Likely large company test period prior to Raytheon and Lockheed awards but you can see in the budget materials that they have begun ordering parts to fabricate the test vehicles for both the HAWC and TBG. HSSW and likely other programs are addressing the other important issues required to weaponize the propulsion and vehicle concepts.
 

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