Guerchais Designations

[Apophenia]

I've been trying to puzzle through the designations of aircraft designed by Louis Guerchais. So far, no real pattern emerges.

Note: 'T' for Type designations are confusing. These are shown as Type x, Tx, T.x, and T-x in different publications

Coupet-Guerchais

Coupet-Guerchais 1-01 - 1922 10.2 m span glider by Lucien Coupet and Louis Guerchais

Avions Legers Guerchais-Henriot
NB: Guerchais-Henriot likely operated as a sub-set of Louis Heriot's Société d'exploitation des carburateurs

Guerchais-Henriot T.1 - 1928 4 pax 'limousine' monoplane, 1 x 450 hp Hispano-Suiza
-- NB: I had 'TV.1' in my notes but can now find no confirmation of this designation

Guerchais-Henriot T.2 - 1928 2-seat tandem high-wing monoplane light tourer
- T.2: 1 x 45-50 hp Anzani 6 radial, 12.00 m span, wooden constr., 1 x prototype
-- http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1928/1928 - 0854.html
- NB: T.2 either had multiple engine changes or there is confusion over type
-- Flight says that engine was an 80 hp "Armstrong-Genet" not an Anzani
-- http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1928/1928 - 0842.html
-- Flight 20 Sept 1928 on Orly meet says T.2 engine was a 50 hp Anzani
-- http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1928/1928 - 0853.htm
-- http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1928/1928 - 0854.html (photo)
-- Flight 8 Aug 1929 says that engine was an 95 hp Salmson (7AC radial ??)
-- http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1929/1929-1 - 0700.html

Guerchais-Henriot T.3 - 1931 single-seat parasol monoplane acrobatic aircraft
- T.3: 1 x 40 hp Salmson 9Ad 9-cylinder radial engine; span (??) m

Guerchais-Henriot T.4 - (Project) 1931 tourer version of T.3 acrobatic aircraft
- T.4: 1 x 50 hp Salmson 5Ac 5-cylinder radial engine; span (??) m

Guerchais-Henriot T.5 - 1929 Type 2 cabin monoplane devel.; x 1
- T.5: 1 x 95 hp Salmson 7AC 7-cyl. radial;* span 11.50 m; F-AJHD
-- * Some sources say 95 hp Renault 4Pb but photos show a radial
-- * That Renault mention may be confusing the T.5 with the T.8
- T.5: As 'F1' for Le Challenge International de Tourisme; Aug 1929
- T.5: Flight 6 June 1930;** as 'M3' for Int'l Touring Competition
-- ** As the "Guerchais-Henriot 5" (with no "T." or "Type" prefix)
-- http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1930/untitled0 - 0636.html

Avions Legers Guerchais

Guerchais T.6 - 1931 5-seat transport/postal a/c, high-wing monoplane, 1 built
- Guerchais 6: 1 x 250 hp Hispano-Suiza 6Mb water-cooled inline, 14.60 m span
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18649.0.html

Guerchais T.7 - (??) Poss. 4-to-10 pax transport, 120-to-180 hp engine

Guerchais T.8 - 1929 3-seat light a/c, 1 x 95 hp Renault 4Pb upright 4-cyl

Guerchais T.9 - 1931* 2-seat low-wing cabin monoplane; x 1; F-AMBD
- T.9: 1 x 120 hp Renault 6A radial engine;** span 10.50 m; fixed u/c
-- * crezan.net's Henri Massot page lists T.9 CoA as n°3229, 6 Aug '32
-- ** Flight 3 June 1932 lists engine as a 100 hp Renault
-- http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1932/1932 - 0533.html
- T.9: F-AMBD flown by Henri Massot in 1932 Circuit of Europe competition
-- http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1932/1932 - 0829.html
-- T.9 performed poorly at Circuit of Europe (38th out of 43); abandoned

Guerchais T.10 - 193? single-seat, low-winged light aircraft
- T.10: 1 x 40 hp Salmson 9Ad 9-cylinder radial engine; span (??) m

Guerchais T.11 - (??) Probably the same as 1930-32 Guerchais T.110 (qv)

Guerchais T.12 - 1931* 3-seat high-wing monoplane cabin tourer, 12m span
-- * crezan.net's Henri Massot page lists T.12 CoA as issued 1 March 1929
-- http://www.crezan.net/pag_aby/massot.html
- Guerchais T-12: 1 x 95 hp Renault 4Pb Bengali 4-cylinder; span 12.00 m
-- T.12: aka Guerchais Roche T.12-1; F-AIYL
-- http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1931/1931 - 0474.html
-- http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1931/1931 - 0940.html (photo)

Guerchais T.13 - (??) hypothetical designation

Guerchais T.14 - 1933 3-seat light touring a/c, 1 x 95 hp Renault 4Pb, 1 built
- T.14: Tourer derived from the 1929 Guerchais T.8 light aircraft

After T.14, Guerchais designations seem to become non-sequential (or there are a lot of gaps!)

Guerchais T.110 - (Project) 1930-32 avion stratosphérique; x 1
- T.110: Single-engined, low-wing monoplane, pressurised cabin
- T.110: 1 x 700 hp Lorraine 18G Orion W-18 engine;* span 18.00 m
- T.110: Airframe nearly complete; cancelled in 1932; never flown
-- * hesham claimed 870 hp but most sources say 700 hp
-- * The supercharged Orion possibly not available in time [1]
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18632.msg179634.html#msg179634

Guerchais T.25 - 1936 parasol monoplane 2-seat tandem trainer/tourer; x 1
- T.25: 1 x 60 hp Régnier 4 Do inline 4-cyl.; span 9.94 m; wooded construction
- T.25: Meant as basic trainer for Sections d'Aviation Populaire (SAP); rejected

Guerchais T.50 - 1937* 2-seat high-wing monoplane tourer; wooden constr'n
- T.50: Derived from earlier Guerchais-Henriot T.5; hence unusual designation
- T.50: 1 x 95hp Salmson 7Ac 7-cylinder radial engine; span 11.00 m
- T.50: F-APKN, c/n n°01; *NB: Hesham says 1932; Golden Years says 1937
-- http://www.goldenyears.ukf.net/reg_F-17.htm
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,15922.msg179985.html#msg179985

Ateliers Roche Aviation - Louis Guerchais, chief engineer
-- Ateliers Roche Aviation: aka Etablissment Roche or Ets Roche

DAG 104 - [Project] 1939 flying bomb, 1 x 23 hp Ford auto engine, 2 wind tunnel models
- DAG 104: ordered placed for flying bomb production, planned delivery in June 1940

Guerchais-Roche 'GR' Designations (Gliders)

Guerchais-Roche GR.70 - 1942 single-seat gull-winged sailplane, 17 m span, 1 built
-- http://www.j2mcl-planeurs.net/dbj2mcl/planeurs-machines/planeur-fiche_0int.php?code=679

Guerchais-Roche GR.71 - (Project) (confirm) 1939 glider/sailplane

Guerchais-Roche GR.78 - (Project) (confirm) 1938 powered aircraft

Guerchais-Roche GR.103 - 1938 licence-built Arsenal Émouchet single-seat trainer, x 150
-- NB: Hypothetical desig., usually simply refered to as SA 103 Émouchet

Guerchais-Roche GR.104 - licence-built Arsenal Émouchet single-seat trainer, x 100
-- NB: Hypothetical desig., usually simply refered to as SA 104 Émouchet
-- aka Arsenal-Roche SA 104 Émouchet

Guerchais-Roche GR.105, 1942 2-seat training glider, 18 m span, 1 built
-- http://www.j2mcl-planeurs.net/dbj2mcl/planeurs-machines/planeur-fiche_0int.php?code=677

Guerchais-Roche GR.107, single-seat training glider, 13.8 m span, 1 built

Guerchais-Roche 'T' for Type Designations (Powered Aircraft)

NB: Design of T.30-T.39 series began in 1939

Guerchais-Roche T.30 - 1942 2-seat low-wing monoplane tourer
- T.30: Powered by 90 hp conv. Ford V-8*, 10.50 m span, wooden constr.
-- http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1946/1946 - 1725.html (photo)
-- * Mercury V-8 (dual magneto, alum. crankcase) suppl. by Ford Co., Paris

Guerchais-Roche T.35 - 1944 2-seat low-wing monoplane tourer
- T.35 : 1 x 140 hp Renault 4Pei air-cooled 4-cyl, 2 built
- T.35/I : 1 x 100 hp Renault 4Pei (? 110 hp 4Pgi ?), 1 built
- T.35/II ; 1945, 1 x 140 hp Renault 4P-03 (postwar 4Pei), 6 built
-- T.35/II: F-BFAY n° 1, F-BBSU n° 2, F-BFLQ cn 7,
-- NB: Avia France site says T.35/II was a 4-seater
- T.35/III: 1 x 135 hp Regnier 4 L-00, 1 built

Guerchais-Roche T.39 - 1947 3-to-4-seat deriv. of T.35 monoplane tourer
- T.39 : 1 x 145 hp Mathis G 7R radial, 9.30m span, 2 built
-- T.39: F-BEAP n° 01, F-BCEU n° 02
-- NB: Avia France & Flight 28 Nov 1946 says 175 hp Mathia G 7R
-- http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1946/1946 - 2270 - 0144.html
- T.39/II: 1950, 1 x 175 hp Salmson 9ND radial. 2 built
-- T.39/II: F-BFAZ n° 01, F-BBSU n° 02

Guerchais Schwander (with furniture manufacturer, Henri Schwander)

Guerchais Schwander T-55 - 1950 4-seat deriv. of T.35 low-wing monoplane tourer
- T.55 : 1 x 160 hp Walter Minor 6-III inline 6-cyl, 1 built (n° 01, F-BFAA)
-- T.55: aka 'Guerchais-Roche T.55', crashed 5 Sept 1957 at Arbouans
-- http://www.super-mystere.net/hs003/planche/pages/03.htm (photo)

___________________________________

[1] According to Bill Pearce, the Lorraine 18G Orion W-18 fitted with Brown-Boveri supercharger did not debut until Nov 1934. -- https://oldmachinepress.com/2019/12/20/lorraine-dietrich-w-aircraft-engines/


Avions Legers Guerchais-Henriot/Avions Legers Guerchais Unnumbered Projects

Light aircraft - 2-seat T-2 devel., 45-75 hp powerplant

Light aircraft - Single-seat T-3/T-4 devel., 35-60 hp powerplant

Light aircraft - 3-seat T-5/T-8 devel., 70-100 hp powerplant

Light aircraft - 4-to-10-seat transport., 120-180 hp powerplant
-- Trait d'Union (BFAB) suggests this might be Guerchais' T.7

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,15922.msg240537.html#msg240537

___________________________________

 

[Apophenia]

I've made a few minor additions and changes to the list above.

An ebay ad mentions "Avions Hydravions GUERCHAIS-L. HENRIOT" as an article in Locomotion Aerienne: Les Ailes (9ème année), n° 450, 30 janvier 1930. Might these be some of the 'missing' Guerchais-Henriot designation numbers?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110984317946

Anyone have access to Les Ailes n° 450? Or any details on these Guerchais-Henriot hydravions?

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks to Hesham, the Guerchais-Henriot T.3 acrobatic monoplane and T.4 tourer project have now been added.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,15922.msg180137.html#msg180137

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Apophenia,


and for T-4,probably developed in the same year of T-3,for T-5,it was appeared in 1929,
also for T-9 created in 1931,and for T-12 in 1929.

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks Hesham ... I've now added those dates.

 

[crezan]

Very nice page, but there is a small misunderstanding about my website http://www.crezan.net/pag_aby/massot.html :
regarding the Guerchais t.9 and T.12, "CdN" means Certificat de navigabilité (Certificat of Airworthiness), not construction number c/n.

 

[Stargazer]

Very nice page, but there is a small misunderstanding about my website http://www.crezan.net/pag_aby/massot.html :
regarding the Guerchais t.9 and T.12, "CdN" means Certificat de navigabilité (Certificat of Airworthiness), not construction number c/n.

Welcome! Thanks for correcting this mistake (I hadn't noticed it).

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks for that correction, crezan! I've now substituted 'CdN' in place of my erroneous 'c/n'. :-[

 

[crezan]

It's also possible for you to use the English abbreviation "CoA" in order to avoid any doubt

 

[hesham]

From Onera Archive,

GR.71 was a glider/sailplane of 1939,maybe a Project only ?
GR.78 was an airplane Project of 1938 ?

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[Stargazer]

I'm still puzzled by the mention "Hydravions", also on the 1931 Guerchais ad below...
Although the term refers to both floatplanes and flying boats, I can think of neither in the Guerchais chronology... subcontracting work, possibly?
Talking about subcontracting, Guerchais-Roche also built the Avia 152-A and 152-B gliders in 1941-42.

I find it ironical that the 1941 article below is titled "The first postwar light aviation exhibition" when it is obvious that the war was still in full swing, and that it was actually just post-capitulation... Which makes me wonder: since this salon apparently featured only Guerchais-Roche types, does this say anything about possible Roche collaboration with the enemy? We know that a great many aviation companies prefered to sabotage their aircraft rather than let them fall into enemy hands, but apparently Roche didn't, and even seemed to take full advantage of the situation... That being said, I also know for a fact that proven collaborators were destituted from their assets after the war by the French government, which never happened to Roche, so maybe I'm seeing more to it than there actually was.

 

[hesham]

I'm still puzzled by the mention "Hydravions", also on the 1931 Guerchais ad below...
Although the term refers to both floatplanes and flying boats, I can think of neither in the Guerchais chronology... subcontracting work, possibly?

There is two gaps between T-10 and T-12,also between T-12 and T-14,all
of them were appeared in 1930/31 ?.

 

[Stargazer]

There is two gaps between T-10 and T-12,also between T-12 and T-14,all
of them were appeared in 1930/31 ?.

I don't consider T.11 to be missing from the Guerchais list. To me it has always been the stratospheric T.110.
As for T.13, it may have been skipped for superstitious reasons, as often happened.
However, T.15 to T.24 are not known, so it could be projects within that range, but built seaplanes? I don't think so, there would be some trace of them.

 

[Apophenia]

... built seaplanes? I don't think so, there would be some trace of them.

Agreed. The Guerchais premises in Saint-Cloud would certainly be close enough to the Seine for such work to be practical. One possibility (with zero evidence to back it up!) might be that Guerchais intended to offer some of their own designs on floats.

 

[Stargazer]

One possibility (with zero evidence to back it up!) might be that Guerchais intended to offer some of their own designs on floats.

My feeling exactly.