Fw PTL

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
42
Hi
As I understand the Fw PTL was from an 'in tandem' concept series to the Flitzer.

I read somewhere (but can't remember where) the PTL may have been developed as a possible carrier based fighter(?).
But this dose not sit right to me, even though it may well have made a good one. (?).

Any more information as to what type of roles would the PTL have been put please?

Many thanks
Peter :)
 

Attachments

  • FWPTL1.jpg
    FWPTL1.jpg
    198.5 KB · Views: 142

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
5,068
Reaction score
4,177
Website
www.amazon.com
From
Tragerflotten databook by John Baxter
 

Attachments

  • Escanear0001.jpg
    Escanear0001.jpg
    106.1 KB · Views: 190
  • Escanear0002.jpg
    Escanear0002.jpg
    534.3 KB · Views: 105

Bailey

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jul 24, 2009
Messages
308
Reaction score
13
These Peter Allen profiles from Luft 46, both show what appears to be an arrester hook.

Regards Bailey
 

Attachments

  • fptl-1.jpg
    fptl-1.jpg
    64.2 KB · Views: 136
  • fptl-2.jpg
    fptl-2.jpg
    75.8 KB · Views: 117

Vietcong

Avation Enthusiast from VN
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Messages
76
Reaction score
4
Website
aviationprojects.blogspot.com
The original images of the mockup for Focke wulf project VI Flitzer from Luft 46.com
 

Attachments

  • flit2.jpg
    flit2.jpg
    3.6 KB · Views: 753
  • flit4.jpg
    flit4.jpg
    8.9 KB · Views: 768
  • flit1.jpg
    flit1.jpg
    8.6 KB · Views: 768

Zizi6785

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
321
Reaction score
168
Bailey said:
These Peter Allen profiles from Luft 46, both show what appears to be an arrester hook.

Regards Bailey

Peter Allen = Flitzer ;D
 

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,342
Reaction score
1,500
Just because there may be members, who believe in the "Trägerflotten databook"
as a true source, here are the first lines of the publishers (http://www.uchronia.net/intro.html)
Introduction: "What is Alternate History? Simply stated, an alternate history is the description
and/or discussion of an historical "what if" with some speculation about the consequences of a
different result."
 

Bailey

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jul 24, 2009
Messages
308
Reaction score
13
Peter Allen = Flitzer ;D

Caution put brain in gear before using keyboard...sorry Peter, just did not register at the time ???

Cheers Bailey
 

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
42
No Problem Bailey.
I did those PTLs years ago (long before finding Secret Projects) on a suggestion from a friend and it was this that got me thinking again.
(Indeed I added an arrester hook).

Of course a Naval version would be completely 'What - if', but I wondered if the PTL would have made a good aircraft in this role?
That is to say if it had proved to be a good fighter in the first place.
Jemiba is absolutely correct in pointing out the 'Alternate History' statement.
And a quote/part from Tragerflotten databook must have been the source of my original question.

But now I've discovered Secret Projects I thought the question worth asking, as the answers I know will be clear and as accurate as anywhere on the web.

Otherwise I take it that the PTL would have fulfilled roles as a fighter just like any other at the time.

Many thanks
Peter
:)
 

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
42
Justo Miranda said:
From
Tragerflotten databook by John Baxter

Hi
I notice the fuselage above the exhaust on both drawings looks elongated to a point.
What would the reason for this be? As on non-carrier based aircraft, this is absent.

Many thanks.
P :)
 

Bailey

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jul 24, 2009
Messages
308
Reaction score
13
If you look at the de Havilland Sea Venom, it has the same feature. I can't see any aerodynamic reason for it. Just appears to be a fairing for the arrester hook when stowed.

Regards Bailey.
 

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
42
Ahh-ah.
The arrester hook, of course.

Thanks Bailey.

Cheers
P :)
 

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
5,068
Reaction score
4,177
Website
www.amazon.com
Please see http://www.flightsimdaily.com/images/AlphaSimreleasesSeaVenom_F661/SeaVenom_3.jpg
 

Attachments

  • SeaVenom_3.jpg
    SeaVenom_3.jpg
    33.6 KB · Views: 39

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
42
Hi again,
I will do a couple of normal fighter camo schemes for the PTL and develop the above 'Naval' version, suitabely labelled as an unconfirmed possible of course.

This brings me to ask about the execution of the arrester hook. I would like to improve on the crude application on the two earlier attempts. My initial thoughts were something along the lines of the Hawker Aea Hawk, but the tail of the PTL is kicked up quite high and stretches way beyond the exhaust, so not a good idea.
Any ideas/views as to what I might adapt?
US Navy Fury for example?

Many thanks
P :)
 

Attachments

  • Fury-inflight.jpg
    Fury-inflight.jpg
    20.8 KB · Views: 29
  • Seahawk_101.jpg
    Seahawk_101.jpg
    51.3 KB · Views: 20

Bailey

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jul 24, 2009
Messages
308
Reaction score
13
Grumman F9F Panther as a possible example:-

Cheers Bailey.
 

Attachments

  • panther_3view.gif
    panther_3view.gif
    161.7 KB · Views: 85

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,342
Reaction score
1,500
What's about a V-shaped hook attached to the spar, retracting into
a shallow recess ( To allow for the V-shape, as I think, a U-shape would
give stability issues) ?

(sorry, fiddled around with your drawing a little bit :-\ )
 

Attachments

  • Fw-PTL.GIF
    Fw-PTL.GIF
    73.3 KB · Views: 71

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
42
Thanks Bailey,
Looks something like I was thinking.

Thanks Jemiba
I looked at this, but the picture there is a twin boom version, similar to the Flitzer.

The one I'm doing is the single tail/boom, so I don't think the 'pointy' tail extension would fit. (?)
On second look...the hook seems to come from under the wing or is it my old eyes playing tricks again?
Whereas on the version of this posted by Justo it looks like it was a 'triangular' affair with the hook at the apex(?)
Would this 'triangular' type work on a single boom?

Any other suggestions would be very welcome.
I'm still drawn to the hook slung under the rear fuselage, but in a kind of slim open bottomed fairing.

Many thanks
P :)
 

Bailey

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jul 24, 2009
Messages
308
Reaction score
13
Rear end of a Noth American T-2B Buckeye.

Cheers Bailey.
 

Attachments

  • T2B Tail.jpg
    T2B Tail.jpg
    213.9 KB · Views: 46

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
42
Thanks Bailey.

It just might work, but on the PTL the tail section sweeps up a little more than the Buckeye, so might need a very long hook arm.

I'll give it a try and see what develops.

Many thanks again.
P ;D
 

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
42
Hi again
Tonight's progress.

Plus 2 choices for the hook.
If either which do you think?

Many thanks
P :)
 

Attachments

  • HOOKS.jpg
    HOOKS.jpg
    135.6 KB · Views: 58
  • FWPTLPRo6.jpg
    FWPTLPRo6.jpg
    256.3 KB · Views: 70

Bailey

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jul 24, 2009
Messages
308
Reaction score
13
I think if I was a German designer, with little or no carrier aircraft experience, I would be going with plan A, with possibly a bumper as on the Panther.

Cheers Bailey.
 

Bailey

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jul 24, 2009
Messages
308
Reaction score
13
The following is a description of the catapult operations on the Graf Zeppelin. I don't know how much this would affect the configuration of the aircraft. Would a longer front oleo be needed to raise the angle of attack etc.

Two Deutsche Werke compressed air-driven catapults were installed at the forward end of the flight deck for power-assisted launches. They were 23 m (75 ft) long and designed to accelerate a 2,500 kg (5,500 lb) fighter to a speed of approximately 140 km/h (87 mph) and a 5,000 kg (11,000 lb) bomber to 130 km/h (81 mph).[13]

A dual set of rails led back from the catapults to the forward and amidships elevators. In the hangars, aircraft would have been hoisted by crane onto collapsible launch trollies. The aircraft/trolley combination would then have been lifted to flight deck level on the elevator and trundled forward to the catapult start points. As each plane lifted off, its launch trolley would have been caught in a metal "basket" at the end of the catapult track, lowered to the forecastle on "B" deck and rolled back into the upper hangar for re-use via a secondary set of rails.


Just something else to think about ???

Cheers Bailey.
 

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
42
Many thanks Lads.
I'll develop option 'a', along Justo's lines.

Many thanks again.
P :)
 

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
42
Hi

Another progress report.
Latest side view.

Many thanks
P :)
 

Attachments

  • FWPTLside3.jpg
    FWPTLside3.jpg
    83.9 KB · Views: 53

Bailey

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jul 24, 2009
Messages
308
Reaction score
13
Hi, it's coming on...........attached photo of arrester hook as fitted to the Ju 87C.

Cheers Bailey.
 

Attachments

  • Ju 87C.jpg
    Ju 87C.jpg
    48.3 KB · Views: 28

redstar72

Soviet Aviation enthusiast
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
519
Reaction score
73
I can't imagine an arrestor hook placed just behind the jet nozzle. The Buckeye isn't a good example - it has 2 engines, and the hook is between the nozzles, not behind.
So, my vote is for "a" opinion.
 

Bailey

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jul 24, 2009
Messages
308
Reaction score
13
Profile of BF109T from Teodor Liviu Morosanu, Air Magazine 28, showing arrester hook.

Cheers Bailey.
 

Attachments

  • BF109T_002.jpg
    BF109T_002.jpg
    83.2 KB · Views: 40

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
42
Thanks Bailey and Redstar.

I think we are on the right track now.
I'll re-profile the hook itself more akin the two new examples.

More soon.

Cheers
Peter
:)
 

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
42
Hi again
Today's progress report.

Altered the hook more like Bailey's pics.

Many thanks
Peter :)
 

Attachments

  • FWPTL7.jpg
    FWPTL7.jpg
    249.2 KB · Views: 96

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
42
Hi Bailey.

I'll finish this one and all the others to complete a set of around 50 profile plates and I'll post when completed.
I'll add to 'Flitzer's German WW2 profiles' on site.
It'll take some time though.

I do have a Fw 251 on the go too, so may post a few step by steps.

Many thanks
Peter
;D
 

Nick Sumner

Live! From the Belly of the Beast!
Senior Member
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
578
Reaction score
224
Hi Flitzer - beautiful work as always!

May I ask which camoflage colours you decided to use and what led you to choose them? I have the (probably erroneous) impression that Luftwaffe aircraft aboard ship were just camoflaged as they would have been on land. Is this in fact the case?
 

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,342
Reaction score
1,500
I only remember two "colour schemes": dark green upper sides (without
"splinter camouflage") with light blue undersides, as in the case of the
Arado Ar 196, or light grey, as the He 60. Besides the Fa 330 "Bachstelze"
there were't other types, that regularly served aboard warships, I think.
 

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
42
Thanks Nick and Jemiba.
I'll do more schemes in line with your good advice.

I try to keep the profiles as accurate as I can, including the camouflage schemes, but as the aircraft tend to be experimental, I do stray into this area sometimes when doing the themes.
But all the colours I use are RLM standards or mixes of these.
I tend to think that many 'shades' of so called RLM standards were due to the paint/thinners supply problems both at the manufacturers end and in the field and the fact that ground crews were often responsible for applying final camouflage. These crews were often forced to improvise using whatever they could lay their hands on, including mixing RLM colours they had, to eake out any shortfalls.

Just thinking out loud. ;)


Cheers
Peter
;D
 

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
5,068
Reaction score
4,177
Website
www.amazon.com
German "naval" camo samples here-Post-1
 

Attachments

  • Escanear0001.jpg
    Escanear0001.jpg
    167 KB · Views: 60
  • Escanear0002.jpg
    Escanear0002.jpg
    119.9 KB · Views: 41
  • Escanear0003.jpg
    Escanear0003.jpg
    136.8 KB · Views: 52
  • Escanear0004.jpg
    Escanear0004.jpg
    291.1 KB · Views: 52
  • Escanear0005.jpg
    Escanear0005.jpg
    267.2 KB · Views: 25
  • Escanear0006.jpg
    Escanear0006.jpg
    78.7 KB · Views: 33

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
5,068
Reaction score
4,177
Website
www.amazon.com
German "naval" camo samples here-Post-2
 

Attachments

  • Escanear0013.jpg
    Escanear0013.jpg
    100.2 KB · Views: 23
  • Escanear0012.jpg
    Escanear0012.jpg
    148.6 KB · Views: 22
  • Escanear0011.jpg
    Escanear0011.jpg
    294.7 KB · Views: 25
  • Escanear0010.jpg
    Escanear0010.jpg
    321.8 KB · Views: 25
  • Escanear0009.jpg
    Escanear0009.jpg
    191 KB · Views: 39
  • Escanear0008.jpg
    Escanear0008.jpg
    357.8 KB · Views: 35
  • Escanear0007.jpg
    Escanear0007.jpg
    197.8 KB · Views: 45

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
42
Once again the Justo Cavalry to the rescue.

Many thanks Justo.
Again I can make good use of these.

Peter
;D
 

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
5,068
Reaction score
4,177
Website
www.amazon.com
German oversea camo samples here
 

Attachments

  • Escanear0006.jpg
    Escanear0006.jpg
    300.1 KB · Views: 41
  • Escanear0005.jpg
    Escanear0005.jpg
    452.9 KB · Views: 27
  • Escanear0004.jpg
    Escanear0004.jpg
    427.4 KB · Views: 20
  • Escanear0003.jpg
    Escanear0003.jpg
    480.1 KB · Views: 31
  • Escanear0002.jpg
    Escanear0002.jpg
    439.7 KB · Views: 37
  • Escanear0001.jpg
    Escanear0001.jpg
    291.4 KB · Views: 20
  • Escanear0007.jpg
    Escanear0007.jpg
    464.5 KB · Views: 21

Similar threads

Top