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Fauvel Projects

hesham

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Wingknut

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Very interesting. Attached is an image of the Fauvel AV 30 three-seat fighter proposal, taken from 'Modelstories' at: http://modelarchives.free.fr/Bestiaire/Fauvel_P/index.html
I don't know if I'm reading this right but it looks as if the AV 30 had one crew-member in the port fueslage (in an upward-looking cockpit), a gunner sitting in a turret in the wing centre-section and a third crew-member in the starboard fuesalge (in a downward-looking cockpit).
All very odd ...
Cheers,
'Wingknut'
 

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Grey Havoc

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Fauvel AV 30 seems to have been an interesting attempt to combine the Zerstörer and 'turret fighter' concepts that were still in vogue at the time (1940). I'd say the crew layout was pilot in port cockpit, gunner in the center turret and navigator/radio operator in the starboard cockpit, with the emphasis on being a long range escort fighter.
 

Retrofit

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It was one of the 7 projects (without AV number known yet) presented by Charles Fauvel in 1937 to the French Air Ministry.
Twin seat fighter, 2 x 12-cylinder engine.
Span: 10m, lenght: 4,3m.
Armement: 2 guns and 2 machine-guns
 

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hesham said:
And I know that the AV-38 was 1/3 scale-down version project of AV-31,as
transport aircraft,who know more ?.
The AV-31 was a 220 tons flying-wing passager-transport aircraft project dated 1943. Span: 97m; Area: 1100m2; Max speed: 530km/h; 4 x 7200cv engines
Its 1/3 scale-down version project was the AV-32, also dated 1943. Span: 32,5m; Area: 112,15m2; MW: 8150kg; Max speed: 354km/h; 4 x 254cv engines
Both projects were designed when Fauvel was working with the SAR company (Société Aéronautique de Rhöne) .
 

hesham

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Retrofit said:
It was one of the 7 projects (without AV number known yet) presented by Charles Fauvel in 1937 to the French Air Ministry.
Twin seat fighter, 2 x 12-cylinder engine.
Span: 10m, lenght: 4,3m.
Armement: 2 guns and 2 machine-guns

Hi Retrofit,


but in 1937,there wasn't a competition for twin engined fighter,but in 1938.
 

Retrofit

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Indeed, but the Fauvel's proposal in 1938 was the "assymetric" AV-28 shown in your first post.
This project was not selected due to its assymetry but the "symetric" 2-seat, twin engine AV-29I was retained in 1939.
Studies on the scale-down single-seat prototype AV-29M were stopped in February 1940 due to the war.

In 1937, the 7 proposals were just concepts using Fauvel's flying plank configuration for different types of military missions:
- the twin engine land fighter of your reply #8 and a (retractable floats) seaplane fighter directly derived from this land fighter.
- the two projects of your reply #1
- the flying boat of your reply #3
- the bomber project refered as AV-33 in your first post.
- and a "colonial" 3-seat aircraft which seems to be the project labeled as AV-29M in your first post.
 

hesham

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Thank you my dear Retrofit,


for your explanations.
 

hesham

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Hi,


I ask if anyone heard about those projects,which developed from AV.10,they
are; AV.101,AV.12 and AV.15,please tell us.
 

hesham

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hesham said:
Hi,


I ask if anyone heard about those projects,which developed from AV.10,they
are; AV.101,AV.12 and AV.15,please tell us.

By the way,


those projects mentioned in the Trait d'Union magazine,issue 204,I want
just info about them.
 

Retrofit

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- The AV-101 was a two-seat derivative of the AV-10, developped in 1944 by Fauvel while working with the Société Aéronautique du Rhône (SAR).
- No info concerning the AV-12
- The AV-15 was a pre-WW2 single seat derivative of the AV-10.
 

hesham

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Thank you my dear Retrofit very much.
 

Retrofit

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hesham said:
those projects mentioned in the Trait d'Union magazine,issue 204,I want
just info about them.
Any chance to obtain a scan of this Trait d'Union issue from a SPF member?
Thanks in advance,
Philippe
 

avion ancien

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Going back to the early days, the attached newspaper article, from l'Aéro of 30 August 1935, may be of interest to those who are interested in the aeroplanes and projects designed by Charles Fauvel.
 

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toura

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Re: Re: Fauvel projects

My dear Hesham
Look.......on the left 221 B
on the right 221 A
And always from "Aviation magazine the av 2
 

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Retrofit

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The Fauvel AV-10 was tested in 1936, in Holland, by a KLM test-pilot.
Who has eventually more information about this experiment (exact date, place, test-pilot name, etc...)?

Thanks in advance!
 

hesham

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Hi,


the Fauvel AV-9 was also a three engined seaplane with a high-wing strut braced
project.
 

Retrofit

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Drawing of the Fauvel AV-10 with separate open cockpits (Torpedo configuration).
Source: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930094623_1993094623.pdf
 

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hesham

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Hi,


here is a Fauvel-Arnoux flying wing patent of 1930.


Waffen-Arsenal 18
 

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hesham

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From l'Aeronautique 12/1937,


here is the Fauvel AV.17 glider 3-view,please note it was different about the aircraft
actually built.


http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Fauvel/e_AV17.htm
 

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Jemiba

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Looks considerably different indeed. Judging the shape of the canopy, it could well
be a two-seater, but length seems to be more or less the same.
It's probably me, but I cannot find the 3-view on the linked page, can you point me
to it, please ?
 

hesham

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OK my dear Jemiba,


http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6554004p/f17.image.langFR
 

Jemiba

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Thank you !
I think, the drawing is more notional then, as a fuselage width of about 40 cm seems
to be somewhat too narrow, the actual AV.17 had a fuselage width of the cockpit
section of about 70 cm.
 

hesham

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Hi,


the AV.12 was a glider studied by Louis Flex Institute in 1937.




TU magazine
 

hesham

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By the way,

the AV.29 was appeared in four variants,the 29M,the AV.29 as a two-seat fighter similar to 29M,the
AV.29-I was also a two-seat fighter powered by two 1000 hp HS 12Y 50/51s,and the AV.29-II a two-
seat fighter with 1200 hp P & W engines.
 

hesham

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In my files,

during late of 1939,Fauvel had some interested little known Projects;

- a three-seat twin engined multi-role combat airplane Project.
 

hesham

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hesham said:
In my files,

during late of 1939,Fauvel had some interested little known Projects;

- a three-seat twin engined multi-role combat airplane Project.
- a three-seat twin engined co-operation airplane Project,with fixed landing gear.
 

cluttonfred

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The 1939 project sounds like the AV-29M....

AV-29
(text available in French only)
L'AV-29M était un projet de petit bimoteur de tourisme ou de transport, pouvant être transformé en avion militaire par changement de l'avant et de l'arrière du fuselage. Dans la version militaire, le nez aurait été en plexiglass et armé d'une mitrailleuse. La motorisation faisait appel à deux moteurs Régnier 4F0 de 140 ch. Cet avion était également destiné à jouer le rôle de maquette volante (d'où le "M" dans la dénomination) pour une version agrandie, l'AV-29C2, étudiée en 1939. La version C2 était un chasseur biplace, pour lequel deux motorisations étaient envisagées : soit des moteurs en étoile Gnôme & Rhône "Mars" , soit des douze-cylindres Hispano-Suiza 12Y. Aucune de ces machines ne fut produite.

The AV-29M was a small twin-engine project for tourism or transport able to be transformed into a military aircraft by changing the front and rear sections of the fuselage. In the military version, the nose would have been plexiglas and armed with a machine gun. The power came from two 140 hp Régnier 4F0 motors. This aircraft was also intended to serve as a flying scale model (from which came the "M" in the designation) for a larger version, the AV-29C2, studied in 1939. The C2 versoin was a two-seat fighter powered by either Gnôme & Rhône "Mars" radials or twelve-cylinder Hispano-Suiza 12Y motors. Neither of these machines was built. (translated by me)

Characteristics and performance of the AV-29
M C2
Wing span 10.96 m 12.48 m
Length 4.44 m 5.92 m
Wing area 19.96 m2 25.90 m2
Empty weight 786 kg 2035 kg
Max. gross weigth 1143 kg 3231 kg
Max. speed 330 km/h 634 km/h
Cruise speed 295 km/h 570 km/h
Min. speed 92 km/h
Climb speed 8.8 m/s
Max. altitude 9300 m



Source: http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Fauvel/e_AV29.htm
With 280 hp, a useful load of 357 kg/786 lb and a cruising speed of 295 kph/149 kt, the AV-29M seems like the right size and performance for a three-seat liaison aircraft and the 1939 timing is spot on.

It would be great fun to see one of our resident artists tackle rendering of a miltary AV-29M in French Armée de l'Air service with a glass nose and maybe a rear gun position, say Darne 7.5mm aircraft guns, perhaps overflying the battlefield in the early Battle of France?

Cheers,

Matthew
 

hesham

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No my dear Cluttonfred;

but based on it,with no designation number as I remember.
 

cluttonfred

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hesham said:
No my dear Cluttonfred;

but based on it,with no designation number as I remember.
Really? That sounds an awful lot like the AV-29M armed military variant described in the text. Perhaps a further refinement?
 

hesham

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My dear Cluttonfred,

the Fauvel AV-29 variants are; AV-29,AV-29-I,AV-29-II,AV-29C.2 & AV-29M
 
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