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Fairey Gannet projects

hesham

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Hi,

from Aeroplane Monthly,the Fairey Gannet projects.
 

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AeroFranz

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Cool. i always liked the Gannet, regardless of looks. Thanks for the info.
 

JFC Fuller

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The Tyne powered version is certainly very interesting, I wonder what the stats would have been for that, any major external changes?

From an ASW perspective the Gannet suffered because of the failure of the pentane active homing torpedo programme which effectively left the aircraft without its intended ASW weapon, had that project have been a success it is possible that evolution could have continued and the Tyne powerd version may have made it into production.
 

alertken

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UK underwater weapons drifted 1945-80, for little payoff. NSR 7511 Mk.24 Tigerfish was deployed after 22 years’ work at Lucas, Plessey, Admiralty Establishments, eventually Primed by Marconi. It was firstly for ASW, so due to his "need for confidence” HMS Conqueror's CO attacked Gen.Belgrano with his reload store, USN Mk.8, designed in 1927. Cancelled projects had such codes as Bootleg, Dealer, Mackle, Nozzle, Pentane, Zeta/Zonal/Zoster. To carry such things Gannet emerged from a 1945 Spec.

The fly-before-buy process v. Blackburn Y.A.1 overlapped outbreak of the Korean War: a modest RN able to crew just Triumph at sea in December,1947 was funded for Strike carriers Victorious, Eagle, Ark Royal, and new Light Fleets Centaur, Albion, Bulwark, Hermes. ASW flights would be formed from 100 Avenger A.S.4/5, then Gannet A.S.1/4. No ASW carriers: RNVR would provide convoy escort on the Colossii Light Fleets, with, ah, functional Seamew A.S.1, supplemented inshore by RAuxAF Seamew M.R.2, 30 each, part-MSP-funded. Some Gannets were cancelled, but FAA took delivery of (32 T.2/8 T.5), 146/A.S.1, 67/A.S.4, all part-US MSP-funded (Putnam numbers).

The reported cause of early deletion of RN ASW Gannets was to re-assign carrier capacity to Strike and to redefine surface fleet tasks, by putting ASW rotorcraft on piquets. Not only but also? Might 5 carrier Flights of 4 or 6 have been at sea concurrently: a run of 43 was enough to support that on AEW.3. Did US part-fund so many Gannets to sustain a shore-based, ASW/minelaying role overseas? Did that lapse because Gannet could lift endurance or payload. A.S.1, delivered 1955/56, were scrapped from February,1960, A.S.4 delivered from August,1956, withdrawn by July,1960 and scrapped from December,1960 some with little more than delivery mileage. RAN flew them to August,1967 alongside Wessex HAS.
 

Lauge

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AeroFranz said:
i always liked the Gannet, regardless of looks.

The Gannet doesn't fly. It's so ugly, the ground simply repels it ;)

And it's also a good example of Aircraft Recognition 101: "If it's ugly it's British, if it's weird it's French, if it's ugly and weird, it's Russian.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

PS: I've always been a fan of aircraft (and spacecraft, cars, weapons, etc.) of, shall we say, unconventional appearance, including the Gannet.
 

JFC Fuller

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Ken,

Only the WW2 Dealer was cancelled, its successor (also called Dealer) entered service as the Mk30 and was actually quite successful being used by South Africa as well as the UK as the standard air dropped ASW torpedo for quite some time. It was also to have been the weapon for the Short Seamew and I assume the Bristol Type 191 that was cancelled in 1957. Most of the Z weapons were cancelled in the mid-to-late 40s. RN torpedo development then suffers from two major setbacks, first Pentane fails leaving the RN to focus on Bidder whose electric motors (combined with the fact that it was never a real heavy weight torpedo) result in very speed deficient weapon (It thus disappears from RN escorts very rapidly). The other issue was the abandonment of HTP which robs RN torpedoes of a high speed propulsion system in the time frame.

Pentane is an interesting weapon, it was a true heavy weight ASW torpedo and seems to have been considered variously for the Gannet, Shackleton, surface ships and submarines.

How many Gannet AS.1's were originally required, I know the original contract was for 100 (I think 180 were eventually built) but were there any cancellations / reductions as happened with both the Scimitar (100 to 76) and Sea Vixen (100 to 78) following approach to the treasury, I think something similar occurred with the Buccaneer?
 

Retrofit

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Maveric said:
...more info´s about the research glider ???

It looks like the Supermarine Type 573 experimental glider project or the Handley-Page HP-115 (in its first configuration, copy herewith), both responding to the spec. X197T issued in March 1959 to cover the design and the construction of an aircraft to investigate the low-speed characteristics of the slender delta wing.
Three other manufacturers also answered to this spec.: Bristol with its Type 215 project (configuration close to the HP-115'final config.), Fairey (Type number and configuration unk.) and Miles (Type number and configuration unk.).
Any information available on the two latter projects?

Philippe
 

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AeroFranz

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archipeppe said:
It possible to find any decent Gannet's cutaway?

There was something on the Flight Int'l archives for sure. I'll see if I can find a better one.
 

weirc

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Hi I'm trying to post a cutaway taken from the Gannet repair manual but dont know how to make the file size smaller to post it! any help? P.S. if any body has any requests for information from the manual would be happy to look them up.

Colin
 

starviking

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alertken said:
RAN flew them to August,1967 alongside Wessex HAS.

An aside I know, but I've always wondered why the RAN switched from the Gannet to the Tracker - surely the Gannets still had a fair few years left in them? Any one know the reason why?
 

AeroFranz

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Chiedete e vi sara dato ;D

I think there are more cutaways of the Gannet lying around, but this is the first I could find.
 

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archipeppe

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AeroFranz said:
Chiedete e vi sara dato ;D

I think there are more cutaways of the Gannet lying around, but this is the first I could find.

Mille grazie Franz!!!
(Many thanks Franz!!!)
 

alertken

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SLL: #s of AS.1: Putnam has 9 undelivered AS.4. 31 AS.1/2 T.2 were diverted to RAN, a lot for one Melbourne-load: maybe RN cross-operation was anticipated? It has serials.

SV: why RAN Tracker? I surmise: by c.1966 Trackers had more operators than ever, as surplus USN models were redeployed: tell me that Conair Firecats remain very active even today. Gannet was orphaned as Westland's sole fixed wing confusion: obliged to provide spares/Post-Design Service for AEW.3, but dismally disinterested in distant declining AS models. Support for Indonesia's had been dumped in Konfrontation; Bundesmarine's were phased out during 1965. I suggest RAN preferred to coat-tail USN product Support rather than to try to drum up WAL interest in their AOGs, stockouts, and snags.
 

JFC Fuller

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Does anybody know what the dimensions of the Gannets bomb bay were? I have read that it was designed to carry the Pentane so I am hoping to use the size of the Gannet bomb bay to give me some indication of the length of the Pentane torpedo.

Thanks in advance, sealordlawrence.
 

Abraham Gubler

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alertken said:
SLL: #s of AS.1: Putnam has 9 undelivered AS.4. 31 AS.1/2 T.2 were diverted to RAN, a lot for one Melbourne-load: maybe RN cross-operation was anticipated? It has serials.

The RAN operated Melbourne as an ASW carrier and the Sea Venom/Gannet air wing was slanted to the Gannet with the Venoms as shad hackers. Also lots of Gannets went into the drink as they were not an easy aircraft to control. In the 1940s, 50s and 60s carrier aircraft did not last long due to the high incidence of landing and takeoff accidents.

alertken said:
SV: why RAN Tracker? I surmise: by c.1966 Trackers had more operators than ever, as surplus USN models were redeployed: tell me that Conair Firecats remain very active even today. Gannet was orphaned as Westland's sole fixed wing confusion: obliged to provide spares/Post-Design Service for AEW.3, but dismally disinterested in distant declining AS models. Support for Indonesia's had been dumped in Konfrontation; Bundesmarine's were phased out during 1965. I suggest RAN preferred to coat-tail USN product Support rather than to try to drum up WAL interest in their AOGs, stockouts, and snags.

No need to surmise as there are plenty of facts in Australia. The RAN Trackers were brought brand new from the Iron Works so had zero hours and the latest US electronics. No such rebuilt Gannet could offer such ease of acquisition. Also the RAN was never so happy with the Gannet because it struggled in the operating area. Low altitude in South East Asia the turbines of the Gannet lost a lot of power in the hot and dirty air. So much so that often with a single engine-prop turning the Gannet could hardly make ground speed against a head wind. The reciprocating engines on the Tracker had no such problems. The Tracker was just a much better ASW aircraft despite the Gannets higher air speed in clean, cold northern Atlantic air.
 

blackstar

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That's a nice FG cutaway. Has anybody ever seen an S-2 Tracker cutaway?
 

Abraham Gubler

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blackstar said:
That's a nice FG cutaway. Has anybody ever seen an S-2 Tracker cutaway?

Ryan's webpage has all the SACs which usually have inboard cutaway diagrams:

www.alternatewars.com
 

Pioneer

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A little off topic, but does anyone know how much the Australian government paid for its Gannet AS.1's and S-2 Tracker's??

Regards
Pioneer
 

GTX

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A little off topic, but does anyone know how much the Australian government paid for its Gannet AS.1's and S-2 Tracker's??
I’m travelling at the moment but may have some data I can share when I get home later this week. In the meantime you could probably start by looking in the Australian national archives online records.
 

Pioneer

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Thanks Greg, I'd greatly appreciate that mate!

Regards
Pioneer
 

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