F-104 Starfighter Projects

[pedrospe]

Very interesting concept,thanks a lot for sharing Hesham.




regards


Pedro

 

[circle-5]

Does anybody know what this is? An afterburner for the afterburner? (Source)

 

[GTX]

Some sort of IR shield perhaps? Similar in concept to that on the Israeli A-4s.

 

[circle-5]

Yes GTX, you are probably correct.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


has anyone a drawings to Lockheed CL-978 & CL-982,which developed from
F-104 fighter ?.

 

[hesham]

A new info for me,


the Lockheed F-104 intended to reach Mach 3 ?,Air Pictorial 9/1956.

 

[sferrin]

 

[Bill Walker]

The aircraft used was RCAF 12700, not the one shown in the photo. 12700 was built by Lockheed as an F-104A, 56-770. After several years use by the USAF is was partly converted to F-104G standard, and used by Lockheed, Canadair and the RCAF for avionics development in the CF-104 program. The record breaking flight was its last flight, as airframe and engine limits were considerably exceeded. The aircraft is now in the Museum at Rockcliffe.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Sferrin.

 

[LowObservable]

Late, I know, but I would say that Circle-5's F-104B has an experimental ejector nozzle, possibly associated with the SST program. It has a buzz number which makes it a bit early for anyone to be thinking about IR suppression.

 

[fightingirish]

Lockheed CL-981 retractable canard wing design study (mfr LA 5012 via RJF)
PictionID:42253147
Title: Lockheed CL-981 retractable canard wing design study (mfr LA 5012 via RJF)
Catalog: 17_000009
Filename: 17_000009.tif
Image from the René Francillon Photo Archive at San Diego Air and Space Museum Archive.
Link: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/16950031030/in/set-72157651530128190

 

[alertken]

MBB (Tornado avionics FTB) F-104F.

1973 competition by Panavia for this was between 2 Buccaneer S.2, heavily modifed by Marshall of Cambridge (winner) and MBB F-104F, kit in pods. My memory is that >2 would have been needed. I have never seen a schematic.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the Lockheed F-104 CCV.


http://www.rolfferch.de/F104G/html/projekte.html

 

[Boxman]

Recently posted by Periscope Film on YouTube, the Lockheed-produced film "Training For Space" (circa-1962?), featuring the USAF Aero Space Research Pilot School at Edwards Air Force Base and the planned modification and use of the F-104 as the NF-104A for training. Also note cameos in the film by future astronauts Michael Collins, (the ill-fated) Charlie Bassett, and Joe Engle.

Periscope Film - AIR FORCE RESEARCH PILOT SCHOOL NF-104A STARFIGHTER EDWARDS AFB 45024

 

[Foo Fighter]

If the had taken delivery of the SR-53 for this research and education they would have been able to increase efficiency as the SR-53 was ready to go with rocket power.

 

[sferrin]

If the had taken delivery of the SR-53 for this research and education they would have been able to increase efficiency as the SR-53 was ready to go with rocket power.

I thought Northrop's T-38 based solution was interesting. A shame they didn't build it.

 

[Dynoman]

Here's another variant: QF-104A remote control drone flown at Eglin AFB, Florida.

 

[Dynoman]

Here's a fun one. A Navy F-104 used for weapons tests at China Lake.

 

[sferrin]

Surprised this isn't in this thread:

 

[Dynoman]

Here's one. Not sure which book it came from.

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Well those are new. The Conceptual Studies almost look like the Vought SAMI concepts.

Interesting find!

 

[sferrin]

Here's one. Not sure which book it came from.

What the hell did they stuff in the back end of that M6?

 

[Arjen]

What the hell did they stuff in the back end of that M6?

This thread, page 2, reply #20:

In that booklet about the Taiwanese IDF-development there are at least three Starfighter-based designs ...
1. The X-27 Lancer
2. F-104M4 + J-79
3. F-104M6 +2x TFE-1042

... the other designs I will post at the Taiwan-projects tread !

Source: Scale Model Enthusiast - Military Series No. 1 / 15. Nov.1996 - everything else is written in Chinese !

From Wiki's F124-page:

In 1978, Garrett announced joint research on the TFE1042 afterburner with Swedish company Volvo Flygmotor AB in order to provide an engine for the AIDC F-CK Indigenous Defence Fighter (IDF) being developed for the Republic of China (Taiwan) Air Force (ROCAF). The TFE731 Model 1042 was touted as a low bypass ratio "military derivative of the proven commercial TFE731 engine" and "provides efficient, reliable, cost effective propulsion for the next generation of light strike and advanced trainer aircraft", with thrust of 4260 lbf (18.9 kN) dry and 6790 lbf (30.2 kN) with afterburner. After initial negotiation, the investment was going to be divided between Garrett, Volvo, AIDC, and Italian company Piaggio. The development would consist of the non-afterburning TFE1042-6 for light attack aircraft/advanced trainer, and TFE1042-7 for the AMX or F-5 upgrade. Garrett would be responsible for the core engine, and Volvo would be responsible for the fan section and the afterburner. The engine first ran for 3 hours at a Volvo test facility in 1979.[1]

AIDC also suggested upgrading TFE1042-7 to 8000 lbf (31 to 36 kN) thrust as twin engine solution, in order to compete with General Electric F404 for applications such as the JAS 39 Gripen. However, the Gripen project decided to continue with a single engine F404 variant, built by Volvo, and Volvo left the project to at that point to focus on the Gripen work. Piaggio asked to participate at a later date due to financial reasons and left the program as well. Thus only Garrett and AIDC invested in the new International Turbine Engine Corporation (ITEC), with the contract signed in 1982.[1]

In 1988, ITEC decided to invest in the 12,000 lb TFE1088-12, which was re-designated as TFE1042-70A (for political reason as well). Preliminary study had shown that IDF could supercruise with the new engine. At the same time, GE decided to enter the market with J101/SF, a smaller version of F404. However after the IDF order was cut in half due to budget concerns, the TFE1088-12 engine upgrade plan ended as well.[2] The F-CK IDF first flew in 1989, and aircraft were delivered through 1999.[1]

 

[sferrin]

Thank you!

 

[Michel Van]

on Graphic that Dynoman posted "The Conceptual Studies"

Is the F-104G as Baseline reference or was this Studies something for German Luftwaffe ?
because F-104G, G for Germany...

 

[Dynoman]

The "G" was the "Super Starfighter" with stronger airframe, larger tail, increased fuel capacity, and upgraded avionics for work as a fighter-bomber. The F-104G was sold all over the world, serving with the Germans, Dutch, Taiwanese, etc. The document on the conceptual growth variants of the F-104G uses the aircraft as a baseline.

 

[Michel Van]

The "G" was the "Super Starfighter" with stronger airframe, larger tail, increased fuel capacity, and upgraded avionics for work as a fighter-bomber. The F-104G was sold all over the world, serving with the Germans, Dutch, Taiwanese, etc. The document on the conceptual growth variants of the F-104G uses the aircraft as a baseline.

Thanks for info, Dynoman

 

[Dynoman]

Due to the dangers associated with the Stanley B downward ejection seat developed for early model F-104's a capsule approach was considered.

 

[Dynoman]

XF-104's downward ejection system.

 

[Arjen]

Posted earlier in the Napier Rocket Engines thread:
In 'Lockheed's Skunk Works', Jay Miller writes downward ejection was chosen because
- it promised lower escape g's
- better instrument panel position
- easier clearing the various sharp edges of the F-104's T-tail on ejection
- better tie-in of the lower escape hatch with the seat than was possible with ejectable canopies

 

[Michel Van]

what for excellent finding, Dynoman

Since the F-104 was original design as high-speed, high-altitude fighter/interceptor.
The downward firing Ejection seat was consider ideal, by passing the "T-tail" empennage.
but deaths of 21 USAF pilots, do low-level emergencies with downward firing Ejection seat, let to installment of C-2 upward-firing seat.

 

[Dynoman]

F-104B 57-1303, USAF (later NASA's) aircraft, was used several times to support low-visibility pilot studies using periscopes to land a low L/D vehicle. It supported the X-20 Dyna Soar project as well as a NASP project.

http://webs.lanset.com/aeolusaero/Articles/F-104B_HISTORY_OF_57-1303_Howling_Howland_24Jan10.pdf

 

[GTX]

One that I wasn't previously aware of: apparently back before they settled on the Mirage III there was Australian interest in a RR Avon powered version of the F-104:

 

[circle-5]

Lockheed CL-981 manufacturer's display model.

In addition to the retractable canard, the wing is larger than a standard F-104 wing (250 sq.ft. vs. 230 sq.ft.) This larger wing is different from the NF-104 wing, which had simple tip extensions to position the RCS roll nozzles further outboard (to increase their effectiveness). Instead, the CL-981 extensions were at the wing root, with a dihedral reduction from 10 to 7 degrees. The CL-981 would have been equipped with an uprated J79/J1Q engine with auxiliary inlet doors.

 

[Pioneer]

Lockheed CL-981 manufacturer's display model.

In addition to the retractable canard, the wing is larger than a standard F-104 wing (250 sq.ft. vs. 230 sq.ft.) This larger wing is different from the NF-104 wing, which had simple tip extensions to position the RCS roll nozzles further outboard (to increase their effectiveness). Instead, the CL-981 extensions were at the wing root, with a dihedral reduction from 10 to 7 degrees. The CL-981 would have been equipped with an uprated J79/J1Q engine with auxiliary inlet doors.

Very interesting circle-5

Thank you for sharing!!

Regards
Pioneer

 

[hesham]

Wow,amazing,thank you my dear Circle-5.

 

[Volkodav]

One that I wasn't previously aware of: apparently back before they settled on the Mirage III there was Australian interest in a RR Avon powered version of the F-104:

Very interesting

 

[Dynoman]

German F-104 CCV

 

[Dynoman]

F-104 CCV Article

 

[galgot]

F-104 dogfighter project:
http://www.edwardsflighttest.com/pics/F-104-Dogfighter.pdf
Don't think it's connected to the High wing Lancer project...