Dyle & Bacalan / Société Aérienne Bordelaise (SAB) projects

[hesham]

I have a maiden flight on August 1933 for AB.22

OK my dear Patvig.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the Bordelaise AB.21H was a project for float version of AB.21,intended for torpedo and recce bomber duties,terminated in 1934,and never built.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

I found an aircraft in Dassault list for BA-30 twin engined transport aircraft,designed by
Bordelaise,what was it ,and was it called AB.30 ??.

 

[Deltafan]

Hi Hesham,

The Fana de l'aviation from May 2016 has a few lines about the BA 30.

BA 30 is the first name of the future Dassault MD 3-- Flamant séries

Bordeaux Aeronautique is not linked with the Société aérienne bordelaise (SAB) that built the Dyle et Bacalan planes.

After the nationalization of the Bloch factories (1936), Marcel Bloch founded the SAAMB (Société anonyme des avions Marcel Bloch) and other more little societies. Among these societies was Bordeaux Aéronautique.

Bordeaux Aéronautique built part of the reco / light bomber Bloch/SNCASO* 174/175 and had an office engineering. This office engineering studied the BA.30 project.

After WW2 Marcel Bloch changed his name and SAAMB became GAMD (Générale aéronautique Marcel Dassault). It was the end of Bordeaux Aéronautique too.
The BA.30 project became the modified MD.30 project. The MD.30 became the MD.303 plane. And the MD 303 plane gave the Flamand séries (311, 312 and 315) with around 320 planes.

*SNCASO (Société de construction aéronautique du Sud-Ouest) got part of Marcel Bloch factories, among them the factories that built later the MB.174 and 175.

 

[Archibald]

The two companies were not in the same place either (I live in Bordeaux)
- Dassault was in Talence before moving to Merignac
- Dyle and Bacalan (as the name hints) was in Bacalan, which is on the docks along the Garonne

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dears Deltafan and Archibald.

 

[hesham]

In the wonderful special issue of Trait d'Union magazine "L'aéronautique à Bacalan" (published in 2002, 94 pages devoted to Dyle & Bacalan and Bordelaise) is the "Avion Dyle et Bacalan" model A tested at Eiffel Lab, forefather of the DB-1 then DB-10, with a Burnelli-like fuselage, 1924.

The DB-1;

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d'Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201926%2001.pdf

 

[hesham]

From Docavia No.3,

the Bordelaise AB.20 side view.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

the Dyle et Bacalan DB-75 was a four seat night bomber Project,intended for BN.4 program.

 

[Cy-27]

In the magazine Revue de la Societe Aeronautique from August 1930 there are articles (in French) on the Societe Aerienne Bordelaise (SAB) DB.70, DB.71 and DB.81. The articles have several photos, many of which were posted earlier in this thread. I enclose a drawing of the DB.70 passenger seating layout which I don't think has been posted previously.

DB.81 Features:

Wingspan: 12.0 m
Height: 2.9 m
Length: 8.0 m
Maximum depth of the wing: 1.90 m
Wing area: 16 sq m
Powerplant: 1x Lorraine engine of 120/150 hp
Empty weight: 708 kg
Weight of fuel: 122 kg
Weight of the pilot: 80 kg
Useful load: 220 kg.
Total weight: 1,100 kg
Load per square meter: 69 kg

DB.81 theoretical performances:

Speed ​​max: 200 km/h
Cruising speed: 170 km/h
Landing speed: 80 km/h
Time to 1,000 meters: 5 minutes
Practical ceiling: 4,500 m
Range: 950 km


DB.71 Features:

Wingspan: 37 m
Length: 20 m
Height: 6 m.
Wing area: 206 sq m
Empty weight: 7,850 kg
Fuel weight 2,000 kg
Regulatory crew and accessories: 500 kg
Payload weight: 2,900 kg
Total weight: 13,250 kg
Powerplant: 3 x Lorraine Orion of 700 hp each

DB.71 theoretical performances (with "Orion" motors)

Ground level maximum speed: 220 km/h
Cruising speed at 1,000 meters: 200 km/h
Range: 1,000 km
Endurance: 5 hours
Practical ceiling: 5,000 m

 

[hesham]

Nice find my dear Cy-27.

 

[Cy-27]

The French magazine L'Air No 219 dated 15 December 1928 had a two page piece on the DB.20 design and couple of illustrations. The 3-view is below.

 

[hesham]

Nice find my dear Cy-27.

 

[Stargazer]

the Dyle et Bacalan DB.71 was a variant of DB.70,but powered by four 700 hp Lorraine
18 Gad Orion engines,remained a project only.
TU magazine 195

WRONG! I don't know if it's Le Trait d'Union who claimed that it was only a project or you, but there is at least one photo to prove that the D.B. 71 did exist.

 

[hesham]

Sorry,I translate it wrong.

 

[Stargazer]

Sorry,I translate it wrong.

No problem hesham. Actually I realize from looking at all the other photos that the image actually shows the D.B.70 with the wrong caption, despite the fact that it's taken from a very serious magazine of that period! There is also a photo supposedly showing "the D.B.71 flying over Rouen during its endurance test phase" but I have no idea if it's the real article or not!

 

[hesham]

OK my dear Skyblazer,

and maybe it was a photo to DB.70.

 

[Stargazer]

Although it was designated "L.H." after Lorraine-Hanriot the L.H.70 was built by SAB and marketed as a SAB type. Built in 1932, it was a three-engine all-metal "colonial" monoplane.

The maze of companies that was the French aviation industry is just unbelievable! SAB (the aviation branch of Dyle et Bacalan) was actually a subsidiary of Nieuport-Astra. The latter was purchased by Lorraine-Diétrich, which in turn became part of the Société générale aéronautique (SGA) in 1930. Hence the fact that the L.H.70 (a Lorraine-Hanriot design) was advertised as a Bordelaise (SAB) type, but marketed by the SGA!

 

[hesham]

That's right my dear,

the Societe Anonyme de Travaux Dyle et Bacalan was formed in 1925,began its series from
DB.1 to DB.90,and in 1930 renamed Societe Aerienne Bordelaise and started its series with
AB.15 up to AB.81

 

[hesham]

From TU magazine issue 215,

the Dyle et Bacalan DB-10 was studied as a "Civil Version" also.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Via the Dreamy Dodo blog, see attached a picture of the DB-10 submitted for the French BN3 heavy night bomber requirement.

 

[Apophenia]

From TU magazine issue 215, the Dyle et Bacalan DB-10 was studied as a "Civil Version" also.

Actually, it says that, given the generous size of the fuselage, one could imagine that civil versions might have been studied. So, pure speculation on the author's part.

 

[hesham]

The DB-75 Project.

 

[Sherman Tank]

The DB-75 Project.

Would be nice if you'd mentioned where those pages came from. For all we know they're made up.

 

[hesham]

It's from Gallica site.

 

[hesham]

and in 1930 renamed Societe Aerienne Bordelaise and started its series with
AB.15 up to AB.81

We can say about its series,

AB.15,AB.20,AB,21,AB.21H,AB.22,AB.30,AB.40 ?,AB.50 ?,AB.60 ?,AB.70,AB.80,
SEMA 10 (100) and SEMA 12 (120).

 

[Stargazer]

We can say about its series,

AB.15,AB.20,AB,21,AB.21H,AB.22,AB.30,AB.40 ?,AB.50 ?,AB.60 ?,AB.70,AB.80,
SEMA 10 (100) and SEMA 12 (120).

Why discuss designation lists in the projects section?
I think it would be best to create a dedicated topic in the Designation Systems section...

 

[hesham]

Why discuss designation lists in the projects section?
I think it would be best to create a dedicated topic in the Designation Systems section...

I will do that in this Designation Systems, it's just a hint.

 

[Apophenia]

I will do that in this Designation Systems, it's just a hint.

Since I had a list in my files, I've made a start. Doubtless, others will have more.

-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/dyle-et-bacalan-sab-designations.43356/