Dyle & Bacalan / Société Aérienne Bordelaise (SAB) projects

[hesham]

Hi,

For the Dyle & Bacalan aircraft,we know DB.10 heavy bomber,
DB.20 multi-seat combat aircraft,DB.30 recce,DB.70 transport,
DB.80 postal aircraft and DB.90 twin boom bomber, the company also built
an armoured fighter,does anybody know it ?.

 

[Maveric]

Hi all,

I search for some informations of the french firm Dyle et Bacalan. Espacially need drawings and other of D.B.30; D.B.40; D.B.50; D.B.60 and D.B.90 and following... :
If you can please give a short brief history of these firm.

Thanks and Servus Maveric

 

[Tophe]

Do you have the special issue of "Le Trait d'Union" dedicated to Dyle et Bacalan? I have it somewhere...

 

[Jos Heyman]

In 1924 the Société Dyle et Bacalan of Bordeaux established an aviation branch. On 25 July 1929 it became known as the Société Aérienne Bordelaise (S.A.B.), a subsidiary of Nieuport.
Eventually it became part of Société Aéronautique du Sud-Ouest on 12 January 1935.

 

[Tophe]

Do you have the special issue of "Le Trait d'Union" dedicated to Dyle et Bacalan? I have it somewhere...

The Trait d'Union cover of Dyle and Bacalan is not an article but a full 90-pages booklet (special issue dedicated to this subject).
I guess anyone may order it (20Euros+P&P) at http://www.aerostories.org/~aerobiblio/article290.html
or ask Google to translate this French page from a search typing: BFAB Bacalan
Cheers,
Tophe
PS. BFAB is Branche Française d'Air Britain (Air-Britain French part)

 

[Tophe]

Being a member of the BFAB, I may try to reach the director Jean Delmas to ask what happens. Sorry. By mail, as I think he has no E-mail.

 

[Tophe]

Coming back from holydays, Mr Delmas answered:
- only cheques/checks (in Euros, to "BFAB") from banques located in France are accepted by the Trait d'Union
- or Euros bank-notes/bills inside a separated enveloppe are accepted, this may be illegal but has been done sometimes
Mr Delmas said that many foreign (not-French) people do order and receive. I wish you good luck... (otherwise, maybe I could order for you from France, but I don't know how to be paid back)

 

[robunos]

while searching for something else,(this:-http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5188.msg41169.html#msg41169 ),
i came across this, Dyle et Bacalan DB 10Bn4.

Dyle et Bacalan DB10 Bn4 experimental twin engined four seat night bomber of 1925.
this aircraft used the 'lifting fuselage' concept, which apparently was developed independently of Burnelli in the USA.
the DB 10 was of all-metal construction,and powered by two Gnome-Rhone Jupiter radials.
pilot and co-pilot occupied separate tandem cockpits, and a gunner's position was situated over the central wing leading edge.
this was equipped with a scarff ring mounting twin lewis guns. the navigator'scompartment was located in the wing centre section.
a bombload of 2,866lbs (1300kg) could be carried internally.

performance:-max speed 118mph (190 kph), max cruise 107mph (173kph) at 13,125ft (4000m), service ceiling 18,045ft (5500m).

empty weight 6,944 lb (3150 kg), loaded weight 12,346 lb (5600 kg)

span 82' 1/4" (25 m), length 44' 7" (13.6 m), height 12' 5" (3.8 m), wing area 1,001.04 sq ft (93m2).

source:- Air International, August 1976, page 94

cheers,
Robin.

 

[burunduk]

Maveric, it's not what you asked for, but let those DB-10 land here.

 

[Tophe]

In the wonderful special issue of Trait d'Union magazine "L'aéronautique à Bacalan" (published in 2002, 94 pages devoted to Dyle & Bacalan and Bordelaise) is the "Avion Dyle et Bacalan" model A tested at Eiffel Lab, forefather of the DB-1 then DB-10, with a Burnelli-like fuselage, 1924.

 

[Tophe]

Then DB-11 tested in 1929 as wind-tunnel model (of twin-engine aircraft):

 

[Tophe]

Then DB-30 seaplane with 2 Jupiter engines of 420hp. 3,400kg empty weight, span 27.6m

 

[Tophe]

special issue of Trait d'Union magazine "L'aéronautique à Bacalan" (published in 2002, 94 pages devoted to Dyle & Bacalan and Bordelaise)

With pictures are of course presented the Dyle & Bacalan DB-10, DB-20, DB-70, DB-80, DB-81, AB-20, AB-21, AB-22, AB-80, LH-70 but without picture are also mentioned unbuilt projects:
- DB-90 and AB-15 of 1929 (in the family of DB-70) wrongly named DB-71 by journalists of that time
- 28-tons 4,000hp living wing.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Tophe very very much;

and for Dyle et Bacalan,it had also a project for armoured fighter,but no
more details are available.

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys and Girls, because I posted this aircraft in the wrong topic; here is a small article in French on the Société Aérienne Bordelaise AB.80 prototype. It isn't "secret" and it isn't a "project", but shows an interesting mix of typical Dyle & Bacalan/Bordelaise construction with a cantilever wing. I cannot work out which other French multi-purpose bomber/reconnaissance types are its contemporaries and which were designed to meet the same requirement......

The article comes from the 15th April 1969 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)......

 

[archipeppe]

French designers during 30's relized sometimes elegant design but more often ugliest ones ever.... ;D

Luckily it came Marcel Dassault with its Mirages during '60s.

 

[Retrofit]

French designers during 30's relized sometimes elegant design but more often ugliest ones ever.... ;D

The "Société Aérienne Bordelaise" was the new name of the "Dyle & Bacalan" company specialized in railway and naval construction. that's help... ;D

 

[archipeppe]

The "Société Aérienne Bordelaise" was the new name of the "Dyle & Bacalan" company specialized in railway and naval construction. that's help... ;D

Aha....

 

[Stargazer]

French designers during 30's relized sometimes elegant design but more often ugliest ones ever.... ;D

Luckily it came Marcel Dassault with its Mirages during '60s.

Yep, but way back when Dassault was still known by his real name Marcel Bloch, he produced some pretty horrendous designs too... ;D

 

[archipeppe]

Yep, but way back when Dassault was still known by his real name Marcel Bloch, he produced some pretty horrendous designs too... ;D

Of course, probably he spent the second half of his life making trasure of what did in the first half.
Anyway he was also quoted for this "if it is beauty will fly well"....

 

[Stargazer]

Of course, probably he spent the second half of his life making trasure of what did in the first half.
Anyway he was also quoted for this "if it is beauty will fly well"....

Exactly. You can tell that he learned the lesson the hard way. Experience made him create beautiful aircraft that flew wonderfully and still do.

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys and Girls, here is a reprint article in French about the Société Aérienne Bordelaise AB.80 multi-purpose bomber/reconnaissance prototype from 9th August 1934……

The article comes from the 15th September 1959 issue of Les Ailes......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the Dyle et Bacalan DB-40 may be developed from DB-30,and the DB-40 & DB-50 were
mentioned in the Trait d'Union magazine issue 195,does anyone has that volume ?.

 

[toura]

Hi all
Here, the db 40 from and old
"Aviation Magazine"

 

[hesham]

Excellent my dear Toura,


also there is in your picture,the DB-50 which powered by only one Renault engine also
may be that aircraft intended for A.2 1928 competition for observation and combat
aircraft,the main contenders were;


Breguet Bre 270,Potez-390,Dyle & Bacalan DB-30,(may be DB-50),Caudron C.140,
Weyman Wel-10,ANF-130 and Morane-Saulnier MS.152.


What about DB-60 ?.

 

[Stargazer]

Three topics merged.

 

[Stargazer]

Not seen previously in this topic, the D.B.81 mail transport:

 

[toura]

and from "Aviation Magazine"
The db 80

 

[theponja]

Something is wrong the db 80 and db 81 looks "normal" .

 

[Stargazer]

A little less "normal" perhaps (though quite elegant in its own way), the 14-ton, twin-fuselage D.B.70:

 

[Stargazer]

Quite obviously, the D.B.70 led to the A.B.20 and A.B.21... First two photos are from another forum topic:

 

[hesham]

Hi,


in the 1928 program for twin engined torpedo bomber competition,the main contenders
were;


Latecoere L-290 & L-440,Besson MB-30,SPCA-20,LeO H-16 & H-257,Nieuport NiD-50,CAMS-52,
FBA-?,Dyle et Bacalan DB-40 and Villiers Vil-26.


I suspect in Villiers Vil-26,and I don't know FBA proposal,also I add the Dyle et Bacalan DB-40
to this competition.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the Bordelaise AB.15 was a five seat heavy bomber project,powered by four 610 hp
Lorraine 12 Fb engines.


TU magazine

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the Dyle et Bacalan DB.71 was a variant of DB.70,but powered by four 700 hp Lorraine
18 Gad Orion engines,remained a project only.


TU magazine 195

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the Bordeliase AB.22 was a five-seat night bomber (BN.5) aircraft,intended to carry 75mm gun,maybe remained
a project only.

 

[patvig]

I have a maiden flight on August 1933 for AB.22

 

[hesham]

I have a maiden flight on August 1933 for AB.22

OK my dear Patvig.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the Bordelaise AB.21H was a project for float version of AB.21,intended for torpedo and recce bomber duties,terminated in 1934,and never built.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

I found an aircraft in Dassault list for BA-30 twin engined transport aircraft,designed by
Bordelaise,what was it ,and was it called AB.30 ??.

 

[Deltafan]

Hi Hesham,

The Fana de l'aviation from May 2016 has a few lines about the BA 30.

BA 30 is the first name of the future Dassault MD 3-- Flamant séries

Bordeaux Aeronautique is not linked with the Société aérienne bordelaise (SAB) that built the Dyle et Bacalan planes.

After the nationalization of the Bloch factories (1936), Marcel Bloch founded the SAAMB (Société anonyme des avions Marcel Bloch) and other more little societies. Among these societies was Bordeaux Aéronautique.

Bordeaux Aéronautique built part of the reco / light bomber Bloch/SNCASO* 174/175 and had an office engineering. This office engineering studied the BA.30 project.

After WW2 Marcel Bloch changed his name and SAAMB became GAMD (Générale aéronautique Marcel Dassault). It was the end of Bordeaux Aéronautique too.
The BA.30 project became the modified MD.30 project. The MD.30 became the MD.303 plane. And the MD 303 plane gave the Flamand séries (311, 312 and 315) with around 320 planes.

*SNCASO (Société de construction aéronautique du Sud-Ouest) got part of Marcel Bloch factories, among them the factories that built later the MB.174 and 175.