Designing a specification for the RCAF, 2010 (Canadian alternatives to the JSF)

Avimimus

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Here is the game: To design specifications and choose up to two designs on a the minimal budget using off the shelf components or existing platforms.

Basic Requirements:
- Operate in Canadian conditions over large expanses of the frontier
- Ensure a rapid response to territorial violations in the Arctic
- Support Canadian operations in peace time
- Support Canadian expeditionary forces
- Intercept waves of Soviet (and Soviet era) bombers headed to drop paratroopers through the United States ;)

Possible specifications:
- Twin engined
- Pilot and observer stations
- Winter and all weather capability
- Short takeoff or amphibious capabilities
- Ability for crew to survive crash landings in scrub and on water
- Cargo capacity for air-dropping equipment or emergency evacuation
- Fixed wing search and rescue and maritime patrol (surface ships, not submarines)
- Relatively low cost and decent fuel efficiency
- Ability to penetrate modern air-defense networks
- Ability to loiter and provide observation or fire-support in COIN operations
- Supersonic dash capabilities for interception (Tu-95 cruisers at least?)
- Ferry range with payload in excess of 3000km (or very strong STOLL/unprepared field capabilities)
- Capacity for being outfitted with interception avionics

Please, no discussion of politicians (with the exception of Dief the Chief)
 
Re: Designing a specification for the RCAF, 2010 (Canadian alternatives to the J

Okay, ... so that's suited to Canadian operations, twin-engined, cargo-capacity, low-cost and fuel efficient, right? Not sure about the supersonic dash bit (or resurrecting the RCAF) ... ;D
 

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Re: Designing a specification for the RCAF, 2010 (Canadian alternatives to the J

Apophenia said:
Okay, ... so that's suited to Canadian operations, twin-engined, cargo-capacity, low-cost and fuel efficient, right? Not sure about the supersonic dash bit (or resurrecting the RCAF) ... ;D

;D :eek: B) ;) ;D ROFL
 
Re: Designing a specification for the RCAF, 2010 (Canadian alternatives to the J

Apophenia said:
Okay, ... so that's suited to Canadian operations, twin-engined, cargo-capacity, low-cost and fuel efficient, right? Not sure about the supersonic dash bit (or resurrecting the RCAF) ... ;D
you know all too well that goes to the other forum ::)

but...

LOL ;D
 
Re: Designing a specification for the RCAF, 2010 (Canadian alternatives to the J

Whoa... Is this not "Alternative history and future speculations" par excellance? Why should the fact that we're mapping out possible speculations lead the topic to be moved? Is it the fact that a single illustration happens to bear a non-existent designation, instead of the words "speculative design"? I would like an explanation (for understanding at least).

But until then, I'll have a beer.

Apophenia said:
Okay, ... so that's suited to Canadian operations, twin-engined, cargo-capacity, low-cost and fuel efficient, right? Not sure about the supersonic dash bit (or resurrecting the RCAF) ... ;D

Very excellent! It is almost exactly as I imagined for one of the options (except side-by-side instead of glass cockpit). As a sub-sonic design it might have trouble getting into an intercept position on the Russian patrol aircarft. I've been preparing my own object for the "design competition". It further sacrifices speed for flexibility.

The illustration is dependent on spare time (and I'm certain will be much worse), but I'll give a written description:

The design could have most servicing conducted centrally, but have stations on smaller airfields to allow faster response and expend less fuel to reach patrol areas. Speeds of at least 400kph and a range of 3500km with 1500kg of cargo are projected - although the design may be enlarged with more powerful engines in order to increase cruise speed and take-off performance (eg. 700kph). It is somewhat similar to the IA-58 Pucara and the OV-10 Bronco, but much larger (currently 9,000kg loaded weight). The design looks like a goose.

Basic characteristics:
- A high performance twin engined turboprop
- A modular design using the rear fuselage for quick substitution pods to fill different roles.
- A narrow forward fuselage with a stepped cockpit, similar to the FMA Pucará or Embraer Tucano, for maximising field of view for a pilot and co-pilot/observer.
- Special crush space under the nose (with possibility to use this location for an endemic optical sensor). Flame retardant around the main fuel tanks.
- Rough field landing gear, with a wide spacing to prevent debris striking optics.

Standard rear-fuselage pods:
- A slim/transfer pod (higher aerodynamic efficiency)
- A special high-volume emergency evac with room for one stretcher and an attendant (width of 1.5 metres, height 1.2).
- A pod with the ability to parachute a large automated covered life-raft (with protected engine to avoid catching on debris/people, nets to aid climbing in and heaters/medical equipment).
- Multisensor Patrol/SAR pod (including locations for swapping in LLTV and IR sensors).
- Other parachute payloads or mapping/sensor pods are possible.
- Pods may contain auxiliary fuel tanks for trim

The aircraft is suitable for low-intensity environments with visual/IR threats (not radar equipped air-defenses). The design could be used for border patrol duties, as well as a counter-insurrgency/escort aircraft and a force amplifer to protect peace-keeping operations.

Military/Expeditionary version:
- The cockpit has room for installation of 0-0 ejection seats.
- Main systems run through tracts which can be armoured (14.5-23mm) by replacing panels in the normal version.
- All military pods contain an optional rearward facing optical sensor to spot weapons fire and the two under-wing hardpoints can carry countermeasure pods (if not carrying targeting pods).
- Proposed military pods include:
1) A module with hardpoints for light bombs (and fuel for ballast),
2) an escort version with a mobile/depressible automatic cannon and
3) a surveillance pod with infra-red sensors to monitor troop/militia movements, as well as radio surveillance equipment and a data-link to allow real-time transfer of data.

Areas yet to be settled:
- Assessing costs (although the design is cheap compared to using jets, and training fuel expenditures can be used for SAR, Patrol and medical flights)
- The design is progressing from an upper wing/overwing engine design to a mid wing/underwing engine design due to the landing gear in the engine nacelles.
- Setting the target maximum speed and target power-to-lift ratios (and settling on a powerplant), along with the exact balance between cruise and STOLL performance for the wing.
- Amphibious capability has been abandoned. However, float and ski variants remain possible. A twin-boom alternative design should be assessed.
- Improving all-weather flying capabilities is a priority.

This design should meet all requirements except 1) a long ranged supersonic sensor/weapons platform to maintain air-superiority 2) a strike platform or surface-to-surface platform for attack naval targets or foreign countries. It is questionable if the long-range interceptor requirement still exists. The second requirement could be met by an optionally manned vehicle developed by one of the allies (once the design has matured), or some advanced missile system. So the idea is that the patrol design would co-exist with a missile platform design (and existing rotary winged platforms).

Unfortunately, the design cannot intercept errant air-liners (or the rather stunning Tupolevs), but at least pilots could keep up their training while doing other useful work (SAR, medical flights, geological survey flights). Several hundred of these aircraft could be purchased for a portion of the current fighter budget.

P.S.
(Yes, RCAF - it is funny, but nobody told me about this change. I suppose you're now going to tell me that we no longer have carriers?)
 
Re: Designing a specification for the RCAF, 2010 (Canadian alternatives to the J

Avimimus said:
(... I suppose you're now going to tell me that we no longer have carriers?)

Oops, I forgot to include the tailhook on my 'CF-144' ;)

BTW Avimimus, the roles that you're describing might well have been filled by proposed CL-84 variants in years past. Including landing-on! ;D
 
There is insufficient range and payload though. As a result of your suggestion I am testing a variant with more powerful engines and reduced span, but 20-30 degree tilt for takeoffs and landings.

It might produce a superior STOLL performance, while maintaining a small span and superior cruise speeds. However, it will be heavier and control on landing might be an issue (no cyclic). It would be nice to imagine CL-84 children anyway.
 
Re: Designing a specification for the RCAF, 2010 (Canadian alternatives to the J

Hammer Birchgrove said:
Wouldn't Eurofighter Typhoon do the trick? Or F/A-18E/F Super Hornet?

Like Rafale, those are true stealth designs -- completely invisible to DND's Director of Air Requirements ;D
 
Re: Designing a specification for the RCAF, 2010 (Canadian alternatives to the J

Apophenia said:
Hammer Birchgrove said:
Wouldn't Eurofighter Typhoon do the trick? Or F/A-18E/F Super Hornet?

Like Rafale, those are true stealth designs -- completely invisible to DND's Director of Air Requirements ;D
ROFL LMAO :D
 
Ha! Excellent! Is that yours? Even funnier than the IAF stealth fighter joke.

You should e-mail it to the leader of her Majesty's loyal opposition (along with the CF-144?)
 
This the kind of plane that the liberals what.
 

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Re: Designing a specification for the RCAF, 2010 (Canadian alternatives to the J

So instead of a twin-engine safety factor, there'd be twin wings. Good idea. If/when that one engine fails, it'll be able to glide more safely to earth ;D

avimimus: on the tilt-wing STOL, Canadair's 4-engined CL-246 was to have 30° tilt. What about going with four engines? More drag but you gain full wing coverage in STOL mode.
 
Maybe this'll fit the bill.........

From 'Air International', February 1978, page 75.


cheers,
Robin.
 

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