Is this a serious article?

“Unlike previous air-to-air missiles like the AIM-7 and AIM-120, the AIM-174 is a two-stage missile, with two rocket motors that give it a much longer range than any other operational air-to-air missile currently fielded. LongShot could potentially have a similar range and has a distinct advantage over two-stage missiles.”

I’m asking seriously
 
Is this a serious article?

“Unlike previous air-to-air missiles like the AIM-7 and AIM-120, the AIM-174 is a two-stage missile, with two rocket motors that give it a much longer range than any other operational air-to-air missile currently fielded. LongShot could potentially have a similar range and has a distinct advantage over two-stage missiles.”

I’m asking seriously
I think the reasoning that LongShot have advantages over AIM-174 is in the following paragraph.

“LongShot could potentially have a similar range and has a distinct advantage over two-stage missiles. If a fighter aircraft launches a two-stage missile, the enemy will be forced to expend countermeasures in the form of chaff or flaresto disrupt the missile’s tracking and guidance systems. By contrast, if a LongShot is launched, it will present a two-dimensional targeting dilemma: The enemy will have to expend an air-to-air missile to shoot it down, and if the LongShot launches a missile, they will also have to expend countermeasures to defeat the missile.”

Up to you whether you think that is sufficiently valuable to design something like a LongShot.
 
This is a slop article. And I will only enable scrapers, offend thoughtful members with my imprecision and provoke responses from the wrong people if I enumerated why, but short of that suffice to say if I did it would be like clubbing baby seals, even for a D- pupil like myself. But most of all a thoughtful response wouldn’t advance the discussion for those picking over every detail, and needing some sense of organization and order to important fora like this; it would just be another reordering of information gathered here, in other discussions, hiding in plain (plane?) sight.

But yah @TomS nailed my primary interrupt
 
The way I see it the main and only argument that is a better option to other options is range as in a firing platform that is close to the enemy.
I assume the whole drone with 2 AIM120/AIM260 weights in at 4000 lb and has a range of 1000-1200 NM.
Then alternatively for the same payload 10 MALD and 2 AIM120/AIM260 could be used for the same role except lacking 600 NM in range but for 10x the targetting problem for the enemy. If the MALD spoofs sensor for being detected but hard to be hit by missiles, hence, is more surviveable than this setup has a far greater value in targeted "mass" while also having the same number of return shots.
 
The way I see it the main and only argument that is a better option to other options is range as in a firing platform that is close to the enemy.
I assume the whole drone with 2 AIM120/AIM260 weights in at 4000 lb and has a range of 1000-1200 NM.
Then alternatively for the same payload 10 MALD and 2 AIM120/AIM260 could be used for the same role except lacking 600 NM in range but for 10x the targetting problem for the enemy. If the MALD spoofs sensor for being detected but hard to be hit by missiles, hence, is more surviveable than this setup has a far greater value in targeted "mass" while also having the same number of return shots.
But that’s not a one to one comparison though because you are comparing 6-12 pylon worth of stores for 10x MALD + 2x AIM120/260 for potentially doing the same job as one LongShot with 2 missiles per pylon. Or in the case of AIM-174, shoot at 2 targets at same range as one AIM-174 per pylon… maybe even 3 targets depending on what happens a with the LongShot after it’s made it shots.

Edit: point is it’s not just about mass of the total payload but the number of pylons you need to do the same job.
 
This is a slop article.
Agreed. The conclusions it draws seem arbitrary.

For example: the idea that incr 1 arent "autonomous" enough or capable enough. Guy writes that shit and proceeds to leave that there with no links, no citations and no evidence to back that up.

Then:
The first increment of candidates for the Collaborative Combat Aircraft program are highly unlikely to make any difference in the Air Force’s ability to effectively project power and gain air superiority before the end of the decade.
Fair assessment
They are too technologically immature
Lol. Gives marginal evidence of what he actually thinks is too immature about incr 1 and literally zero useful discussion on why he thinks this.
will be too expensive to be bought in the numbers the Air Force needs, and will require a significant amount of effort to be integrated into the combat Air Force.
He thinks this because he also thinks:
LongShot requires only rules-based, expert-system autonomy
Despite saying:
LongShot will operate autonomously after launch, executing various behaviors selected by the crewed aircraft operator. Unlike a first-increment aircraft, LongShot will be air-launched at a particular, tactical moment and operate continuously forward of its crewed counterparts, executing a one-way mission.
Has this guy ever bothered taking a gander in academic research on autonomous systems? Has he ever bothered looking into how much work it takes to write, make useful and integrate a rules based system as complex as a drone into a broader network? What he described as the mission of longshot is likely oversimplified at best. Those "various bevahiors" arent easy or necessarily rules based - and the software that goes on a full sized CCA doesnt preclude it from being rules based either.

Has he considered exactly how many longshots will be carried by, say, an F15E vs other payload options? Nope

Has he considered the idiotic idea that given the aircraft fit to carry longshot, it likely WILL be fired into areas where there are friendly planes ahead of them, which thus requires IFF transponders, decision making that may or may not be rules based, and ultimately far more complex than he thinks it is? Nope.

Has he considered exactly what types of planes are most likely to carry longshot into action? Or the likely positions, roles and circumstances these planes will find themselves in in a typical operation? Nope.

Because all of those points could turn out against his point.

The problem isnt even stuff like this. The problem is he frames it as if longshot is going to solve more problems than incr CCAs and its the better somution. Maybe what people like him should understand is all of these pieces are complementary.

I feel like a great number of people on this forum are more credible than whatever the hell he wrote. Im sure people find things I say the same way, but man so much kf the stuff in this article is just his opinion untethered from any actual experience (or even research) in anything he's talking about.
 
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But that’s not a one to one comparison though because you are comparing 6-12 pylon worth of stores for 10x MALD + 2x AIM120/260 for potentially doing the same job as one LongShot with 2 missiles per pylon. Or in the case of AIM-174, shoot at 2 targets at same range as one AIM-174 per pylon… maybe even 3 targets depending on what happens a with the LongShot after it’s made it shots.

Edit: point is it’s not just about mass of the total payload but the number of pylons you need to do the same job.
Not necessarily, the MALD weights less than 500 lb and can be mounted on the 6-store MER (has been shown with B52?)(5000 lb station) for the F15 the rest (AIM120) would be on the outer wing stations for a total of 12 MALD and 4 AIM120 with F15EX/SA. Not counting the regular 8 missile the F15 carries. If you count the center station that would add anoter 6 MALD.
So 12-18 MALD + 4 AIM120/260 vs 2-3 Longshot(4-6 missiles) + 4 AIM120/260 for a F15EX/SA occupying the same stations. Not counting the regular 8 missile.
You would be right if it were the B52/B2/B1/B21, though.
Edit:
on the F18:
5 Longshot(10 missile) + 6 missiles vs 30 MALD + 6 missiles
Edit:
The B52 wing station mounts 9 MALD on the same MER for 9x 2000 lb. It's a waste. The B52 needs a new rack to ~30 MALDS.

MALD-J.jpg
 
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Not necessarily, the MALD weights less than 500 lb and can be mounted on the 6-store MER (has been shown with B52?)(5000 lb station) for the F15 the rest (AIM120) would be on the outer wing stations for a total of 12 MALD and 4 AIM120 with F15EX/SA. Not counting the regular 8 missile the F15 carries. If you count the center station that would add anoter 6 MALD.
So 12-18 MALD + 4 AIM120/260 vs 2-3 Longshot(4-6 missiles) + 4 AIM120/260 for a F15EX/SA occupying the same stations. Not counting the regular 8 missile.
You would be right if it were the B52/B2/B1/B21, though.
Edit:
on the F18:
5 Longshot(10 missile) + 6 missiles vs 30 MALD + 6 missiles
Edit:
The B52 wing station mounts 9 MALD on the same MER for 9x 2000 lb. It's a waste. The B52 needs a new rack to ~30 MALDS.

MALD-J.jpg

The B-52 rack is not a MER; it is the Heavy Store Beam Adapter (or something like that) and is unique to the aircraft. In fact I think B-52 can carry 8, not six.(ETA: you can see 8 in your picture, with the left and right rows carrying three back to back but the center middle position clear for presumably separation issues).

Tactical aircraft likely are limited to TER, which I think was largely withdrawn from service but recently was used to carry hydra rocket pods on F-15Es.

ADM-160 launch weight I believe is like 305 lbs, though it probably depends on the version.
 
The B-52 rack is not a MER; it is the Heavy Store Beam Adapter (or something like that) and is unique to the aircraft. In fact I think B-52 can carry 8, not six.(ETA: you can see 8 in your picture, with the left and right rows carrying three back to back but the center middle position clear for presumably separation issues).

Tactical aircraft likely are limited to TER, which I think was largely withdrawn from service but recently was used to carry hydra rocket pods on F-15Es.

ADM-160 launch weight I believe is like 305 lbs, though it probably depends on the version.
I know that it has a new one, too. I just kept it simple for people.
All the TER/MER stores are rated for up to 1000 lb.

MERs on F15 from the USAF photo server (https://media.defense.gov/2007/May/16/2000543910/-1/-1/0/060905-F-1234S-025.JPG):
060905-F-1234S-025.jpg
 
AFAIK all MER have been withdrawn and I doubt the ADM-160 length would allow its use.
 
AFAIK all MER have been withdrawn and I doubt the ADM-160 length would allow its use.
Mk83/GBU32 is 119.5" the MALD 112.5 in it fits just fine.
The better get it back or better yet design a new stealthy version. It shouldn't be too costly.
Heck even the old A4 mounts 2-3 MERs, the regression feels too harsh.
 
Mk83/GBU32 is 119.5" the MALD 112.5 in it fits just fine.
The better get it back or better yet design a new stealthy version. It shouldn't be too costly.
Heck even the old A4 mounts 2-3 MERs, the regression feels too harsh.

Length seems to vary with version, with newer MALD-J being longer.

As for MER: there are few cases where that many stores are needed or desirable, and I also question if that type has the appropriate wiring for modern munition interfaces, though I am not certain.
 
NAVAIR 11-75A-603 (WITH CHANGE-2)
IMPROVED MULTIPLE EJECTOR RACK (IMER) MODEL BRU-41/A
Doesn't mentioned whether the Improved version has any datalink.
New design it is then.

Anyhow, MALD is a decoy is shouldn't need reprogramming and be automated. If it does it could always be updated pre-flight like all the others.
 
I think you think much more of MALD than USAF does. I think it is a system on the way out for them, to be replaced by effectors with either HE or EW payloads.

ETA: the people who seem to be carrying the MALD forward are the USN with MALD-N, which apparently uses all the upgrades of MALD-X with specific hot swapable nose mounted EW payloads intended if not currently produced. LRIP for 250 was in 2021. Undisclosed single source buy worth $1.1 billion to RYX with similar worded contract circa 2023.
 
At least one member of this forum who has done the leg work has alerted us to the US armed services interest in attritable drones utilizing SDRs, autonomy, local ML compute etc to do all sorts of new and interesting EW things.
 
I think you think much more of MALD than USAF does. I think it is a system on the way out for them, to be replaced by effectors with either HE or EW payloads.

There is something MALD-like in the NGAD FoS.
There are also new MALD… variants that have not been reported in the press, because the press isn’t looking.
 
There is something MALD-like in the NGAD FoS.
There are also new MALD… variants that have not been reported in the press, because the press isn’t looking.

Do you have anything you would be willing to post on the existing MALD? The USN seems to be very tight lipped about it; I cannot even find an unambiguous commitment to a production contract post LRIP, though the one in 2023 I assume is that. I have heard nothing about USAF buys or new versions with MALD-X/N like capabilities, though it would not shock me that there are some. But i had assumed NGAD had a MALD like system and that perhaps the USAF was waiting for that and not going down the MALD-X road.
 
While the basic ADM-160 MALD is likely on its way out, the mission itself is still needed.

Frankly, I suspect that stand-in jamming for stealth fighters can be handled by something the size of a MALD, as opposed to something the size of an EA-18 Growler.
 
While the basic ADM-160 MALD is likely on its way out, the mission itself is still needed.

Frankly, I suspect that stand-in jamming for stealth fighters can be handled by something the size of a MALD, as opposed to something the size of an EA-18 Growler.

Well Quellish seems to indicate that the ADM-160 does indeed have new USAF versions.

Certainly NGAD has always implied a similar system as part of its FoS, though I presume the big difference there is that the decoy is integrated with the other various NGAD platforms and software agents rather than being a “dumb” expendable. I always assumed that this might be MALD like but not specifically an RTX product using the existing platform.
 

DARPA’s LongShot with General Atomics Aeronautical Systems has successfully completed a series of technical milestones, moving its air-launched uninhabited vehicle – recently designated the X-68A – closer to flight testing.

Recent achievements, including full-scale wind tunnel tests and successful trials of the vehicle's parachute recovery and weapons-release systems, demonstrate significant progress in developing this next-generation capability.
 

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Why would they have been withdrawn?
They are safe separation hazards with the inboard station being particularly hazardous. That and coupled with the lack of need for them with modern precision munitions, they were deemed not worth the risk for use and pulled from inventory.

Surprises for everyone I guess; I for one envisioned long shot launching AMRAAMs or JATMs.

Not…. Sparrows?

Pretty sure it’s because it’s an AI generated image… the purple exhaust was the big clue.
 
Definitely. Was being lighthearted but a Sparrow is apparently not the only thing that makes a big whooshing sound when it flies right by - or in this case - over a target ;)
 
It seems like a waste to have non-retrievable longshot drones armed with two AAMs if you launch a drone and dont end up taking any shots.

Besides - given its comparatively lower level of eomplexity, having it being recoverable during peace time exercises seems valuable with stingy budgets.
 
It seems like a waste to have non-retrievable longshot drones armed with two AAMs if you launch a drone and dont end up taking any shots.

Besides - given its comparatively lower level of eomplexity, having it being recoverable during peace time exercises seems valuable with stingy budgets.
Love child of JASSM-XR and Boeing EWP.
 

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