Covid-19 Vaccine - Where, How & Costs

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https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/19/united-launch-alliance-requiring-covid-19-vaccines-sept-1.html
Rocket builder ULA will require employees receive Covid vaccines beginning Sept. 1
PUBLISHED THU, AUG 19 20219:02 AM EDT
Michael Sheetz
@THESHEETZTWEETZ

KEY POINTS

Rocket builder United Launch Alliance, the joint venture of Boeing and Lockheed Martin, will require all employees to receive vaccinations against Covid-19 beginning Sept. 1.

“The recent increase in cases in our communities and among our teammates is beginning to stress the schedule and negatively impact our ability to meet our commitments to our customers,” ULA CEO Tory Bruno wrote on Wednesday in a company-wide email obtained by CNBC.

ULA – headquartered in Centennial, Colorado, with operations in Alabama, Texas, Florida, and California – is one of the top U.S. manufacturers of large rockets.
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I keep getting the feeling that maybe longer term that the much maligned AZ vaccine is actually the more durable solution between it and Pfizer vaccine. That we and other countries maybe backing the wrong horse.

The UK must quickly rollout a Covidvaccine booster and convince sceptics to take up the jab if it is to avoid a deadly fourth wave of the virus, an Israeliscientist has warned.
Eran Segal, a biologist professor at the Weizmann Institute of Science, said his country is seeing the effectiveness of the double Pfizer vaccine waning six months after the second jabs was administered.
Last week Israel became the first nation to offer a third dose to people as young as 50. It also has some of the highest levels of vaccination in the world, with about 80 per cent of those aged 12 and older having had both jabs.


However, Mr Segal warned the country is now seeing a sharp rise in infections and hospitalisations, particularly among the elderly and vulnerable, as the vaccine loses its potency and the highly infectious Delta variant spreads.
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https://www.standard.co.uk/news/hea...gal-covid-delta-booster-vaccines-b951536.html
 
I had my second AZ jab two weeks ago, I was beginning to wonder whether I would have been better off with Pfizer. Take it as it comes.
 
edwest2 said:
Good for them. I hope they locate the man/woman involved.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireS...ource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_headlines_hed
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They have.

Some cases of Delta found beyond the immediate outbreak (including the city where I live), but tracking and genetic analysis of variants and therefore origin has been good. The country's in lockdown till next Tuesday midnight at least. It's only shocking because we were last in lockdown a year ago. Actually, rather than 'shocking', general reaction is that it's 'somewhat annoying'. Mind you, our national trait is understatement - Monty Python's Black Knight was probably a New Zealander.

Vaccination has lagged somewhat here due to late availability, not hesitancy, as community transmission has been very low overall. This has been because the government has pursued a strategy of 'go early and hard' to prevent initial spread along with coherent, co-ordinated and centralised communication. We've avoided politicising vaccination or prophylaxis. There's the lunatic fringe, as there is everywhere, but no political party has tried to exploit any aspect as a tribal issue, so they remain the fringe.

Government communication abounds with sports metaphors and the country as a 'team' (mostly referring to rugby, but at the Olympics we did best in sports that involve sitting down - rowing and the like).

Based on our experience, my advice would be: take expert advice, act quickly, keep the public informed of your decisions and the decision-making process to keep them on side, and appeal to team spirit and community.
 
Jacinda Ardern seems to be a gentle person - except with COVID. She took the gloves off right from the beginning. And it seems to pay off.
I wonder if NZ being an island so remote from the rest of the world also helped, somewhat. With COVID and modern day communications, it is no longer an insurance.
 
The United States is not New Zealand. Uncivilized behavior is widely promoted.
 
edwest2 said:
The United States is not New Zealand. Uncivilized behavior is widely promoted.
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You haven't been to France then. Uncivilized behavior is "part of national psyché and rebel attitude against the government" - since 1789 at least.

Case in point: the asshole that spent so much time and money and energy creating three full-scale guillotines (minus the blades) he then dragged on small towns in south-west France.

He could have at least carried one to Paris ! So much energy and anger wasted... only for zilch results, oh, and he has been caught and will pay the price for his foolishness.

(facepalm)
 
France? What can I say? And what do these people get out of it? Liberty? Fraternity?
 
Just underlining how important masks still are if we are to keep Covid in check. And also why people shouldn’t leave their masks under their nose which I still see happening far too often.
A preliminary study has shown that in the case of a breakthrough infection, the Delta variant is able to grow in the noses of vaccinated people to the same degree as if they were not vaccinated at all. The virus that grows is just as infectious as that in unvaccinated people, meaning vaccinated people can transmit the virus and infect others.
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https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...eakthrough-infections-can-spread-delta-easily
He was still sharing conspiracy theories from his ICU bed.

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0c6968106f181?ri18n=true&ncid=APPLENEWS00001
 
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New Channel 4 documentary on the possible origins of Covid.

Explosive claims that the Covid-19 pandemic was caused by a leak from a laboratory in Wuhan, China, are laid bare in a new documentary this weekend.

The film presents a body of circumstantial yet compelling evidence supporting the “lab leak” hypothesis – initially dismissed by the scientific establishment as a conspiracy theory but now gaining traction.

The documentary for Channel 4, Did Covid Leak from a Lab?, places further scrutiny on Dr Shi Zhengli, a world expert on bat coronaviruses and the director of the Centre for Emerging Infectious Diseases at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where the alleged escape may have taken place.
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Using computer modelling to try to identify an intermediate species, Professor Petrovsky discovered that the species Sars-Cov2 bound to the most was humans.

Because the virus could not have originated in humans, the modelling pointed to the humanised mice, or lab-grown human cells.

Professor Petrovsky says: “Just the tiniest single viral particle in the air is enough to infect the first human and then rapidly transmit, because now it doesn’t need to adapt.

You have the perfect human virus already at the time you have the very first case. That would explain this rapid transmission, the lack of need of the virus to adapt… And that is that is simply not normal of any pandemic virus that we’ve seen before.”

Did Covid Leak From A Lab? airs on Channel 4 at 10:15pm on Sunday
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https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/w...idence-supporting-covid-origin-theory-1161167
 
Archibald said:
Instead of saying nasty and ugly things about that... person, I would suggest instead to give him, postumously, both prizes below.
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Perfect. I've stopped feeling schadenfreude about half a dozen wingnut's deaths ago. Now I just feel sad.
 
Flyaway said:
New Channel 4 documentary on the possible origins of Covid.

Explosive claims that the Covid-19 pandemic was caused by a leak from a laboratory in Wuhan, China, are laid bare in a new documentary this weekend.

The film presents a body of circumstantial yet compelling evidence supporting the “lab leak” hypothesis – initially dismissed by the scientific establishment as a conspiracy theory but now gaining traction.

The documentary for Channel 4, Did Covid Leak from a Lab?, places further scrutiny on Dr Shi Zhengli, a world expert on bat coronaviruses and the director of the Centre for Emerging Infectious Diseases at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where the alleged escape may have taken place.
Click to expand...

Using computer modelling to try to identify an intermediate species, Professor Petrovsky discovered that the species Sars-Cov2 bound to the most was humans.

Because the virus could not have originated in humans, the modelling pointed to the humanised mice, or lab-grown human cells.

Professor Petrovsky says: “Just the tiniest single viral particle in the air is enough to infect the first human and then rapidly transmit, because now it doesn’t need to adapt.

You have the perfect human virus already at the time you have the very first case. That would explain this rapid transmission, the lack of need of the virus to adapt… And that is that is simply not normal of any pandemic virus that we’ve seen before.”

Did Covid Leak From A Lab? airs on Channel 4 at 10:15pm on Sunday
Click to expand...

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/w...idence-supporting-covid-origin-theory-1161167
Click to expand...

Sooo the story would be

- 2012 - Chinese miners go mining bat guano in a cave, are bitten, and returns severely ills or dying of a coronavirus flu.

- Shi Zhengli, already alarmed by SARS (2003) and Avian flu (2009) close-calls decides to study in depths all those coronavirus, ticking bombs sitting in bats.

- She starts a "collection" of coronavirus at the Wuhan lab, methodically, sample after sample. I vaguely remember she had I.D at least 1500 different ones or estimated their numbers to 1500 (gasp !)

- She and colleagues start tweaking the virus NOT to make it a bioweapon, BUT for to ease their studies.
Remember this ? https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/health/h5n1-bird-flu-research-that-stoked-fears-is-published.html
(Anthony Fauci was already in the place !)
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2012.10469
(TBH, it is no surprise reading the above that weak, paranoid minds saw that 2012 quagmire as some kind of "first atempt" for the ongoing shitstorm...)

- and then... one lab rat makes a mistake, and the virus escapes to Wuhan city

- and then to the world

Un-be-lie-va-ble.
 
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Dear Shi Zenghli

If that Wuhan lab escape theory ever proves right, I shall remind you about that memorable quote.
“Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions.” Sam Neill - Dr. Alan Grant. Jurassic Park III
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A pretty bad movie, but by gosh, was Alan Grant right with this quote.

Shi Zenghli "But... but I just wanted to study coronaviruses in bats, to prevent new SARS or MERS or avian flu close-calls. I did that with the best intentions."

Alan Grant (livid and aghast) “Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions.”

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7EfulLMR74
 
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Flyaway said:
New Channel 4 documentary on the possible origins of Covid.

Explosive claims that the Covid-19 pandemic was caused by a leak from a laboratory in Wuhan, China, are laid bare in a new documentary this weekend.

The film presents a body of circumstantial yet compelling evidence supporting the “lab leak” hypothesis – initially dismissed by the scientific establishment as a conspiracy theory but now gaining traction.

The documentary for Channel 4, Did Covid Leak from a Lab?, places further scrutiny on Dr Shi Zhengli, a world expert on bat coronaviruses and the director of the Centre for Emerging Infectious Diseases at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where the alleged escape may have taken place.
Click to expand...

Using computer modelling to try to identify an intermediate species, Professor Petrovsky discovered that the species Sars-Cov2 bound to the most was humans.

Because the virus could not have originated in humans, the modelling pointed to the humanised mice, or lab-grown human cells.

Professor Petrovsky says: “Just the tiniest single viral particle in the air is enough to infect the first human and then rapidly transmit, because now it doesn’t need to adapt.

You have the perfect human virus already at the time you have the very first case. That would explain this rapid transmission, the lack of need of the virus to adapt… And that is that is simply not normal of any pandemic virus that we’ve seen before.”

Did Covid Leak From A Lab? airs on Channel 4 at 10:15pm on Sunday
Click to expand...

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/w...idence-supporting-covid-origin-theory-1161167
Click to expand...

"explosive" I strongly doubt that. There will be no 100% confirmed origin story.

Perhaps The Media will explode one day... leaving behind a bit of sanity.
 
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Archibald said:
Flyaway said:
New Channel 4 documentary on the possible origins of Covid.

Explosive claims that the Covid-19 pandemic was caused by a leak from a laboratory in Wuhan, China, are laid bare in a new documentary this weekend.

The film presents a body of circumstantial yet compelling evidence supporting the “lab leak” hypothesis – initially dismissed by the scientific establishment as a conspiracy theory but now gaining traction.

The documentary for Channel 4, Did Covid Leak from a Lab?, places further scrutiny on Dr Shi Zhengli, a world expert on bat coronaviruses and the director of the Centre for Emerging Infectious Diseases at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where the alleged escape may have taken place.
Click to expand...

Using computer modelling to try to identify an intermediate species, Professor Petrovsky discovered that the species Sars-Cov2 bound to the most was humans.

Because the virus could not have originated in humans, the modelling pointed to the humanised mice, or lab-grown human cells.

Professor Petrovsky says: “Just the tiniest single viral particle in the air is enough to infect the first human and then rapidly transmit, because now it doesn’t need to adapt.

You have the perfect human virus already at the time you have the very first case. That would explain this rapid transmission, the lack of need of the virus to adapt… And that is that is simply not normal of any pandemic virus that we’ve seen before.”

Did Covid Leak From A Lab? airs on Channel 4 at 10:15pm on Sunday
Click to expand...

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/w...idence-supporting-covid-origin-theory-1161167
Click to expand...

Sooo the story would be

- 2012 - Chinese miners go mining bat guano in a cave, are bitten, and returns severely ills or dying of a coronavirus flu.

- Shi Zhengli, already alarmed by SARS (2003) and Avian flu (2009) close-calls decides to study in depths all those coronavirus, ticking bombs sitting in bats.

- She starts a "collection" of coronavirus at the Wuhan lab, methodically, sample after sample. I vaguely remember she had I.D at least 1500 different ones or estimated their numbers to 1500 (gasp !)

- She and colleagues start tweaking the virus NOT to make it a bioweapon, BUT for to ease their studies.
Remember this ? https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/health/h5n1-bird-flu-research-that-stoked-fears-is-published.html
(Anthony Fauci was already in the place !)
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2012.10469
(TBH, it is no surprise reading the above that weak, paranoid minds saw that 2012 quagmire as some kind of "first atempt" for the ongoing shitstorm...)

- and then... one lab rat makes a mistake, and the virus escapes to Wuhan city

- and then to the world

Un-be-lie-va-ble.
Click to expand...

It is (quite) possible 'SARS-CoV-2' (accidentally) leaked from the WIV (Wuhan Institute of Virology), samples of many sarbecoviruses (SARS-like betacoronaviruses) are stored/studied there.
Sarbecovirus 'RaTG13', the closest known sarbecovirus-relative (there is a whole series of them) to SARS-CoV-2 (96.2% genetically identical), indeed killed 3 Chinese workers cleaning up some horseshoe-batspecies´ shit in a mine in Mojiang in 2012, but it might also be of (some) importance to know it infected 6 such miners. In 2013 researchers from the WIV discovered RaTG-13 in the mine where the workers were infected, and so then the cause of their infections could be determined by comparing samples. As RaTG-13 killed (within 100 days) 3 of the 6 humans it had infected (who probably had less then optimal lung-function if they were somewhat experienced miners but who certainly hadn´t been pulled out of a nursing-home), one could assume RaTG-13 probably has an average IFR (Infection Fatality Ratio) of not that much lower then 50% (for humans), which would be just at the frontdoor of the IFR/CFR-ballpark of e.g. the Ebola-virus. So, if at the WIV they later genetically modified RaTG13 to become SARS-CoV-2 and if it later leaked from the lab, then at least they also might have turned it into into a for humans less deadly virus then it originally was...
SARS-CoV-2 (origninal Wuhan-strain of 2020) has an IFR for Western countries of around 1% on average. Which still is much higher then the IFR of Seasonal Influenza, the IFR of flu is only rarely mentioned anywhere and should not be confused with it´s very often mentioned CFR (Case-Fatality Ratio)!!!
SARS-CoV-1 (2002) has an IFR (rather CFR, as almost everyone infected develops symptoms) of almost 10%.
They could have mixed in some genetic characteristics of another betacoronavirus, but hmm... that really becomes genetic engineering with very deadly viruses then and a horrendously dangerous game, much more then cultivating the original strain for study in human cells or in mice. Quote Dr. Baltimore (from "the smoking gun"): “I believe the question of whether the sequence was put in naturally or by molecular manipulation is very hard to determine but I wouldn’t rule out either origin.”
So, I wouldn´t jump now from 'a lab-leak is very unlikely' to 'a lab-leak' is the only possible origin'.
Back in in 2013, in that very same mineshaft in Mojiang where the 6 workers had been infected, they also discovered one additional novel betacoronavirus and about 150 novel alphacoronaviruses. (AFAIK, not much is known outside China about those either.) Imagine what one might find in 'the batcave a couple of doors further down the street' (when one would go look there).
 
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Archibald said:
@Dreamfighter very interesting !!
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Thanks. I mentioned in my post the IFR (Infection-Fatality Ratio) for SARS-CoV-2, but I forgot to mention it´s CFR (Case-Fatality Ratio), which is somewhere around 3%-4% for most European countries. (Same ballpark as 'Spanish Flu'.) Just for comparison with my 'quite crudely estimated'(*) IFR/CFR of maybe up to 50% for RaTG-13 (based on 3 deaths and just 6 infections), and for comparison with the known CFR of 10% for SARS-CoV-1.

(*): To make a much more accurate and very reliable estimate for an IFR (or a CFR), one needs to have at least several thousands of infections, preferably nicely spread out through all ages and other 'subgroups' ( e.g. young super-healthy people, old fragile people in nursing-homes, people with cancer or other immune-compromising issues, people with e.g. diabetes, etc, etc) within a population.
So, with only 6 known people to have ever been infected with sarbecovirus / betacoronavirus RaTG-13 and 3 of them ending up dead due to their infection, I´m guessing the 6 persons who were cleaning in the bat-mineshaft were quite accurate representatives of the average Chinese person. And assuming every person infected with RaTG-13 gets (symptoms of) disease (all 6 infected miners developed disease), so that for RaTG-13 the IFR = CFR (like is also the case for SARS-CoV-1, but not for SARS-CoV-2). In case the 6 mine-cleaners had been frequently working in mines for several years and were already having important lung-issues as a consequence at the time of their infections, well then my estimate might be (very) wrong.
 
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Archibald said:
I wonder if NZ being an island so remote from the rest of the world also helped, somewhat. With COVID and modern day communications, it is no longer an insurance.
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You have to consider that NZ is a major holiday destination - I have friends who were there when the whole thing blew up - so its physical isolation didn't translate into actual isolation until Jacinda Ardern slammed the doors shut (which was clearly the right call, even if economically damaging).
 
DWG said:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ak-theory-is-more-about-politics-than-science
(Ignore the sub-headline, that's about one paragraph at the end, there's a lot of sensible analysis before that).
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I heard that Asia is more exposed to bat-coronavirus because its inhabitants are used to dig bat guano from caves and use that as a makeshift, poor's man agricultural fertilizer.

Cooking bats is also part of their gastronomy (in China and elsewhere) and as such, things like Wuhan wet market happens.

And then, the more population growth, the more agriculture needs bat guano, the more bats habitats are disturbed... and a side effect would be, more and more bats coronavirus cross the barrier species and lands into humans.

And thus the 2003 SARS, 2009 avian flu, and present COVID shitstorm would all be related through that.

TBFH, I have no idea if all the above is total bullshit - or a viable theory. In case of "total bullshit" please forget it and note no racism against asian culture was ever present in the above comment.
 
Archibald said:
I heard that Asia is more exposed to bat-coronavirus because its inhabitants are used to dig bat guano from caves and use that as a makeshift, poor's man agricultural fertilizer.
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Whereas we in the West used to annex and then dig up entire islands for seabird guano! There's similar issues pretty much anywhere man comes into contact with disease reservoirs we aren't familiar with - cf the old reputation of West Africa as 'the white man's graveyard'. And it's ongoing, we still don't know what the animal reservoir for Ebola is, though fruitbats are the favourite. And it occurs in the West as well, cf Hantavirus from deer mice in Arizona, or various tick-borne diseases such as Lyme Disease. And sometimes those reservoirs spread, such as West Nile Virus getting a foothold in the US in 1999 and then spreading over the entire country.
 
DWG said:
Archibald said:
I heard that Asia is more exposed to bat-coronavirus because its inhabitants are used to dig bat guano from caves and use that as a makeshift, poor's man agricultural fertilizer.
Click to expand...

Whereas we in the West used to annex and then dig up entire islands for seabird guano! There's similar issues pretty much anywhere man comes into contact with disease reservoirs we aren't familiar with - cf the old reputation of West Africa as 'the white man's graveyard'. And it's ongoing, we still don't know what the animal reservoir for Ebola is, though fruitbats are the favourite. And it occurs in the West as well, cf Hantavirus from deer mice in Arizona, or various tick-borne diseases such as Lyme Disease. And sometimes those reservoirs spread, such as West Nile Virus getting a foothold in the US in 1999 and then spreading over the entire country.
Click to expand...

And let´s not forget SARS-like betacoronavirus MERS-CoV (Middle-Eastern Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus), which has caused small/limited outbreaks in the Middle-East and e.g. South-Korea since 2012. It has a CFR of 34%. It has also been isolated from... yep, bats. So, most probably this one too originates in bats, with dromedaries/camels as the intermediate hosts for it´s jump to humans.
It´s much less virulent then it´s present cousin SARS-CoV-2.
Earlier SARS-CoV(-1) has disappeared (mysteriously), but MERS-CoV remains around and each year some people get infected, so far mostly in the Middle-East and (South-East) Asia, sometimes travellers/tourists.
It is quite possible very contagious SARS-CoV-2 and very fatal MERS-CoV will at one point in time meet up in the same individual (camel or human). Imagine they then decide to have some fun with one another. Not 100% sure if nephew & niece would be able to produce a 'very well functioning' kid, but it is certainly not unthinkable.

2 attachments for those who might be interested to know a bit more about relationships between the betacoronaviruses...
* 1st attachment dates back to early-mid 2020, showing taxonomy of the SARS-like betacoronaviruses. With regard to SARS-CoV-2 it only shows then known versions of the original 'Wuhan'-strain, so without all the later (and often important) mutations/variants.
* 2nd attachment is a very simplified taxonomy of the (at present and to humans) most important betacoronaviruses. The 4 HCoV´s in yellow-orange font are the 4 known betacoronaviruses who live in us humans all the time (80% of all people are carrying one or more of these at any given moment) and which are responsible for causing the common colds, sometimes bronchitis and/or viral pneumonia.
(With regard to HCoV-OC43, there exists a Belgian study by the Royal University of Leuven/Louvain, dating back to 2004 iirc from the back of my mind, which suggests HCoV-OC-43 might have jumped from cattle to humans around 1889 causing what is known as the 'Russian Flu' pandemic.)
The (way too) many coronaviruses living in animal species (including alpha-, gamma and deltacoronaviruses) which are of much less interest to us right now, are not included in these 2 taxonomies.

If all this would be considered too off-topic, just let me know.
 

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Interesting article arguing that we need to change the language we use round vaccines. That overly optimistic language though useful short term in getting people vaccinated is then counter productive longer term as people engage in more risk behaviour and politicians make overly optimistic decisions like rushing through the end of mask wearing. That it’s actually better to dial down people’s expectations from being vaccinated and to frame the idea that vaccines are good as they give you some protection rather than none, but not a shield of steel.

For me I think it’s because I’m a crisis like this there is natural hope that science will provide us with a ‘magic bullet’ and with one bound we will be free of our problems. Rather than deal with the more complex and messy reality.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/corona...talk-about-covid-19-vaccines/?sh=477a6d7152a1
 
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