Competition "Ivanov" : military- tactical aircraft

borovik

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My dear Borovik,
can you tell us about the Ivanov ten projects you mention them here;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6666.msg56111/highlight,ivanov.html#msg56111
In order to replace the reconnaissance-biplan a high-speed machines the Chief Directorate of Aircraft Industry and the Office of the Air Force announced a competition for new aircraft this purpose – VOISKOVOY samolet/military- tactical aircraft: (short-range bomber, reconnaissance and attack plane).
In 1936 the competition program was declared, had called "Ivanov" (It was the telegraph nickname of Stalin)
The first phase: - the requirements for the engine cooling liquid M-34 FRN (1200 hp).

In these works involved design- bureau:
A.N.Tupolev (Brigade P.Sukhoi / future ANT-51)
[Note: The team A.Golubkov worked on the twin-engine, high-speed recon-bomber /
project ANT-56 are working in two versions with engines of air and liquid cooling]

N.N. Polikarpov ,
I.G. Neman ,
S.A. Kocherigin ,
D.P. Grigorovitch
and S.V Ilyushin.
OKB Polikarpov’s and Grigorovitch developed sketch projects straightway in two versions:
scheme with low-wing and high-wing , remaining only on the low-wing scheme.
Project S.Ilyushin not extant (or have not yet found).
Later, the technical requirements have changed in favor of air-cooled engine: M-62 (1000hp) and the number of developers dropped to three: Sukhoi, Neman and Polikarpov.

It was decided to build a recon/attack plane in three versions -
all-metal - P. Sukhoi / «SZ»; «BB-1» (later the Su-2),
all-wood - I. Neman / KhAI-52 and
mixed construction - N. Polikarpov
OKB Kocherigin and Grigorovitch initiative further work in this subject, at first there were several experimental machines and their modifications, the second one shortly before his death began to work on the dive-bomber DG-58 (PB-1) and high-speed scout fast recon, at its base DG -58R (R-9).
___________________________________________________________________
P.Sukhoi /A.N.Tupolev
 

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hesham

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Great my dear Borovik,

thank you very much.
 

borovik

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"Ivanov" by S.Kocherigin
Explanatorily of scheme:
TSh-3 (Tyazhelyi Shturmovik=heavy armoured attacker)
"Ivanov"(M-34RFN) project
Kocherigin instructed to implement a series of multi-roll BSh-1 (bomber-attack plane) / license Vultee V-11GV.
SR (Skorostnoi Razvedchik=fast recon)
R-9
Sh-1, LBSh (Shturmovik-1, Legkii Bronirovannyi Shturmovik=light armoured attacker)
Sh-2,
BMSh (Bol’shaya Modificatsiya Shturmovika= great modification of the attacker)
MMSh, BB-21 (Malaya Modificatsiya Shturmovika= low modification of the attacker)
OBSh project (Odnomestnyi Bronirovannyi Shturmovik=single-set armoured attacker)
OPB (Odnomestnyi Pikiruyushchyi Bombardirovshchik= single-set dive bomber)
IT-2 project (Istrebitel Tankov-2= tank fighter/ tank-buster)
 

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borovik

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"Ivanov" by N. Polikarpov
Explanatorily of scheme:
"Ivanov"(M-34RFN) project
VIT-1, MPI-1 (Vozdushnyi Istrebitel Tankov-1, Mnogomestnyi Pushechnyi Istrebitel =
aerial tank fighter/ tank-buster, multiseat cannon fighter)
TsKB-18 /I-16(M22) armoured cockpit, 4- ShKAS (20 degrees downwards)
I-16type (5/ 11) Shturmovik by Polikarpov/Borovkov, 6- ShKAS (9 degrees downwards) +
6 x 25 kg bombs
AK-62 project (Artilleriyskyi Korrectirovshchyk=gunnery observation/artillery correction aircraft
with engine M-62)
I-16 (SPB) (Skorostnoi Pikiruyushchyi Bombardirovshchik= fast dive bomber in connection with airlaunched TB-3 Zveno)
SPB (Skorostnoi Pikiruyushchyi Bombardirovshchik= fast dive bomber)
TIS project (Tyazhelyi Istrebitel Soprovozhdeniya=heavy fighter escort)
Also, the aircraft was used as a night fighter, attack and anti-tanks aircraft.
ODB project (Odno-Dvigatel’nyi Bombardirovshchik= single-engine bomber) Continuing the theme «Ivanov» in the new edition.
BP, PB project (Bombardirovachnyi Planer= bomber glider)
NB (Nochnoy Bombardirovshchik= night bomber)
 

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lark

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Many mysteries solved in one stroke...
Thanks very much Borovik!
 

airman

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i am fascitaned by these projects, so some of these seems inspired to english airplanes (to Farey airplanes : Fulmar and Battle)
 

redstar72

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airman said:
i am fascitaned by these projects, so some of these seems inspired to english airplanes (to Farey airplanes : Fulmar and Battle)
Yes, especially the Kocherigin project looks very Battle-like. And, as for me, the AM-34-powered ANT-51 initial project reminds me the much later Yokosuka D4Y Judy!
 

Tophe

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The Grigorovich high wing Ivanov would deserve a topic by itself. Very rare are such landplanes with a single engine, tractor propeller, and a free nose for an observer. Thanks for this rarity! ;D (completing the Bv 141 in a vertical way)
 

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Only Suchoj BB-1 was serially built in about 800 pieces serie ; Ivanov was a really nick of Stalin.
They called him also Soso, Salin, Wasiliew, Koba only for friends ( killed and survived :) ),
The acronim BB-1 means " Bliżnyj Bombardirowszczik ", close support light bomber type 1,
after the redesignation of the military aircraft in 1941 called Su-2 as a bomber
with an even number ; fighter versions of Ivanov had uneven designations : Su-1 high altitiude
and Su-3.

Sometimes I meet curious people who wonder why the Tupolew Tu-2 of 1940
was earlier than the Tupolew Tu-1 of 1944 ?
 

Tophe

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Boogey said:
Sometimes I meet curious people who wonder why the Tupolew Tu-2 of 1940
was earlier than the Tupolew Tu-1 of 1944 ?
If I remember correctly, the Soviet designation system used odd numbers for fighters and unodd numbers for the others. So if the first were not fighters, they could be Tu-2 and Tu-4, then if fighters are designed they would be the Tu-1 and Tu-3 (the same if they came before, the Tu-3 code then being given before Tu-2). No?
 

redstar72

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Boogey said:
fighter versions of Ivanov had uneven designations : Su-1 high altitiude
and Su-3.
Dear Boogey, I'm sorry but Su-1/3 fighter (also known as I-135) surely wasn't an "Ivanov" version. It was fully original design, with M-105P inline engine, and much smaller than "Ivanov" (ANT-51/BB-1/Su-2). You can see it yourself - just look at these comparison drawings in the same scale.

Su-2 itself was built in 893 pieces during 1940-1942, mostly by Zavod 135 in Kharkov, Ukraine.
 

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borovik

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Order protocol NKAP (Narodny Komissariat Aviatsionnoi Promyshlennosti = State Commissariat for the Aviation Industry) Minister A. Shahurin of 9 December 1940 at the line with the government decision to rename the aircraft provided:
”Rename the new combat aircraft, calling them the first letters of the names of the principal designers, and the figure. The fighter assigned odd numbers and the numbering of every aircraft designer starts with the figure 1. Bombers, attack plane, and military recon., landing transport aircraft are assigned even numbers and the numbering each aircraft designer starts with a number 2 "(65,7).
With respect to the SU-1 / 3 (I-135, 330), the fighter-interceptor which had no relationship to the program «Ivanov», as well any other fighter.
 

hesham

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borovik said:
"Ivanov" by S.Kocherigin
Explanatorily of scheme:
TSh-3 (Tyazhelyi Shturmovik=heavy armoured attacker)
"Ivanov"(M-34RFN) project
Kocherigin instructed to implement a series of multi-roll BSh-1 (bomber-attack plane) / license Vultee V-11GV.
SR (Skorostnoi Razvedchik=fast recon)
R-9
Sh-1, LBSh (Shturmovik-1, Legkii Bronirovannyi Shturmovik=light armoured attacker)
Sh-2,
BMSh (Bol’shaya Modificatsiya Shturmovika= great modification of the attacker)
MMSh, BB-21 (Malaya Modificatsiya Shturmovika= low modification of the attacker)
OBSh project (Odnomestnyi Bronirovannyi Shturmovik=single-set armoured attacker)
OPB (Odnomestnyi Pikiruyushchyi Bombardirovshchik= single-set dive bomber)
IT-2 project (Istrebitel Tankov-2= tank fighter/ tank-buster)

The Kocherigin attack aircarft;


first with M-71 engine,and the second with M-81 engine;


http://alternathistory.livejournal.com/285302.html
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=ar&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Falternathistory.livejournal.com%2F285302.html
 

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hesham

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For Ilyushin,


is that Ilyushin attack aircraft submit to this competition ?.


http://alternathistory.org.ua/oleg-rastrenin-shturmoviki-velikoi-otechestvennoi-voiny-glava-8-vozdushnye-istrebiteli-tankov-okonch
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=ar&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Falternathistory.org.ua%2Foleg-rastrenin-shturmoviki-velikoi-otechestvennoi-voiny-glava-8-vozdushnye-istrebiteli-tankov-okonch
 

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borovik

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Hesham,
no attack Kocherigin OBSh M-81
no TsKB-60 Ilyushin
for the competition, "Ivanov" have no relation.
 

hesham

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Thank you my dear Borovik.
 

bigvlada

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The easiest way to decipher this is to install additional (in this case Russian) keyboard layout and type the text in Google translate word by word.
These pictures should be the schematics and wind tunnel model of Ilyushin CKB-60 2AM-38 heavy fighter
 

Jan den Das

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As you all know the USSR bought during that time several aeroplanes from other countries as study object.
Now I found the information that first they bought 2 Breda Ba.64 and later 10 Breda Ba.65.
The ideas of these types were for that time modern, but you all know the history (bad).
Who can give me any confirmation if these aeroplanes were bought and delivered?
Further is there any prove pictures?
History and colors is also very interresting?
Jan
 

visvirtusvoluntas

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Sorry Borovik,
I've got a doubt. According to my sources, Kocherigin R-9 was a 1935 project not related with Ivanov and then in competition with KhAI-5.
In 1937 Kocherigin proposed his "M-34 Ivanov" (like all competitors) and when engine was changed for M-62 (1937/38?), all OKBs modified their projects, except Neman and Kocherigin that resurrected R-9 and R-10 to obtain Sh-1 and KhAI-52.
Is it correct?
Regards.
 

borovik

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visvirtusvoluntas said:
Sorry Borovik,
I've got a doubt. According to my sources, Kocherigin R-9 was a 1935 project not related with Ivanov ...
Is it correct?
Regards.
It is. Shown in the diagrams other projects (in most cases) are not directly related to the competition, "Ivanov" and are shown in order to show the evolutionary path of development is relatively little known KB / design bureau.
 

hesham

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Hi,


there is two different drawings to Kocherigin OPB with AM-37 engine,one is appeared in
book below,and the second was in Internet,I can't explain that ?!.




Корабельные самолеты-разведчики СССР
 

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borovik

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In both figures the project OPB AM - 37
the first with the ring radiator (reconstruction M.Maslov) and the version with radiator in the form of "bucket".
But the plane was a competitor of IL-2, and for the competition "Ivanov" was not involved.
 

hesham

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borovik said:
In both figures the project OPB AM - 37
the first with the ring radiator (reconstruction M.Maslov) and the version with radiator in the form of "bucket".
But the plane was a competitor of IL-2, and for the competition "Ivanov" was not involved.

Many thanks to you my dear Borovik.
 

hesham

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borovik said:
In these works involved design- bureau:
A.N.Tupolev (Brigade P.Sukhoi / future ANT-51)
[Note: The team A.Golubkov worked on the twin-engine, high-speed recon-bomber /
project ANT-56 are working in two versions with engines of air and liquid cooling]

Hi,


is there any drawing survivor to this Golubkov SRB aircraft ?.
 

hesham

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Hi,


it seemed to be there was a two tail units to Grigorvich DG-58 ?.
 

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borovik

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Actually the competition "of army plane - IVANOV" Grigorovich has provided two projects: "DB" and "NR" (please see the figure in the first two Reply # 2, respectively)
DG-58, despite the common objectives, the competition was not considered.
In other words -: DG-58 also created in accordance with the requirements of the program, "Ivanov", but not for this competition.
 

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hesham

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Hi,


in the site alternatehistory,and under the title Polikarpov Ivanov,I saw this strange drawing,
what was it ?.


http://alternathistory.org.ua/polikarpovskii-ivanov-sssr
 

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hesham

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Thank you my dear Cy-27.
 

Boogey

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In an old album published yet in DDR, entitled " Das Große Flugzeug Typenbuch " Berlin 1977, I found the photograph of strange looking aircraft
being illustration of the part concerning Sukhoi Su-2. The aircraft seems to be equipped with the fixed gear ! What it is ?
 

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igor-mich

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http://xn--80aafy5bs.xn--p1ai/aviamuseum/aviatsiya/sssr/shturmoviki/legkij-shturmovik-sh-1-lbsh/
 

hesham

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From МИР АВИАЦИИ 2-1999,

what was those Projects in the circle ?.
 

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hesham

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Why not try putting the Cyrillic characters through Google Translate?

I tried,but I found this, projects (December 1936),long-range attack aircraft,light scorer-K and scout,but for which
designer ?.
 

hesham

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From; Авиация и Космонавтика 2019-03.
 

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