The plane for the subsonic speed of code name "105.11", the plane for supersonic "105.12", and hypersonic speeds "105.13". To test the planes in the space flight, BOR models (Orbital Plane without Pilot) were built. [etc etc read the whole story!]
trekkist said:I'm not being coy to be cute. The possible answer rather gives me the creeps. I'd welcome a (similarly coy, if you please) alternate theory of what's being presented here.
blackstar said:Who should verify it?
trekkist said:1--So what's with the difference in content between the upper part of the above diagram, and the lower? The latter consists *exclusively* of spacecraft that had in fact *flown* prior to 1982 (the document's date of publication). Excluded are Vostok and Voskhod, which might be considered "developmental," not "operational."
2--The upper part of the diagram? Quite different...according to public record. Excluded...consistently...are Mercury and Gemini. But *included* is a "non-flown" vehicle. Which begs the question: why? And turning to the text, what exactly rated censoring, circa 2000 (the document's date of declassification), about the anomalous element of the upper diagram?
3--I'm not being coy to be cute. The possible answer rather gives me the creeps. I'd welcome a (similarly coy, if you please) alternate theory of what's being presented here.
blackstar said:It's worth noting that the Soviet space program became more open starting in the mid-1980s. They revealed a lot more in open sources. It made the CIA's job easier. You can see this reflected in the open source publication (produced by a contractor for the USAF, I believe) called The Soviet Year in Space. Those publications get much more detailed by the mid-later 1980s.
GeorgeA said:James Oberg at Teledyne Brown, IIRC.
blackstar said:GeorgeA said:James Oberg at Teledyne Brown, IIRC.
Not Oberg, it was Nick Johnson, who is now an orbital debris expert at NASA JSC. He did "The Soviet Year in Space" during the 1980s. Then it became "Europe and Asia in Space" for two editions, then stopped. I have:
1984
1986
1987
1988
1989
1990
All "The Soviet Year in Space." Not sure when the first edition came out, but it might have been 1981.
Also "Europe & Asia in Space":
1991-1992
1993-1994
That was when it ended.
bazz said:Can I just clarify that this document is what the CIA thought the Ruskies might have been up to it is not intelligence per se on what operational crafts they had at the time?
bazz said:Thanks mate, I got excited for a second, interesting still though.
blackstar said:Unfortunately, the CIA didn't make it easy to download the documents as pdfs. You can only grab individual pages.
blackstar said:Sidenote: this thread title does not make sense.
Matej said:blackstar said:Unfortunately, the CIA didn't make it easy to download the documents as pdfs. You can only grab individual pages.
1-Unless you are lucky and you bought full Adobe Acrobat (that allows you to print all the pages directly as PDF).
blackstar said:Sidenote: this thread title does not make sense.
2-Suggest better. I will change it.
blackstar said:bazz said:Thanks mate, I got excited for a second, interesting still though.
Go to the CIA FOIA site I listed earlier and search around. Type in "Mars" or "space" or "satellite" as a search term and see what shows up. There are several dozen reports similar to that one available. Once you figure out how to navigate the site it's pretty easy to use.
blackstar said:Here's another one.
Matej said:blackstar said:Unfortunately, the CIA didn't make it easy to download the documents as pdfs. You can only grab individual pages.
Unless you are lucky and you bought full Adobe Acrobat (that allows you to print all the pages directly as PDF).