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Chinese Stealth Bomber?

frank

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Seeing all of the wonderful info on the PRC's J-9 & J-11 & the like got me curious. Off & on I've seen refs to a stealth bomber the PRC's supposed to be developing & said to be similar to the F-117, for some reason the designation B-9 or H-9 rings a bell.
 

Deino

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Sorry to disappoint You (and me too) but, as far as we (or at least I) know there was nothing like that !

Everything written about a possible Chinese F-117 clone, counterpart or what-else is false (even – or especially as FAS.org tells You :D) ! … there have been several attempts or maybe even studies for a future bomber, but nothing came to fruition:

What is known from one small grainy picture and an early concept drawing is that it was equipped with two Spey 512’s replacing the standard WP-8 in the wing root-nacelles fed by redesigned smaller diameter circular intakes and two additional Spey 512’s in slim underwing nacelles. Not much has been revealed to the public of this improved version called H-6I but it seems that the initial design took place during 1971 leading to a first flight on January 1977 (some suggesting 1978).

....
 

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Deino

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Another step further was the development of the H-8 which was suggested even before the H-6I program had started. The main reason for that completely new design was the still limited weapon load and range, which prevented the H-6 from being used in the long-range strategic mission. As a result the PLAAF requested for the development of a long-range bomber for which the Aeronautical Engineering Department Institute 603 got its order on 23rd March 1970 to begin development.

Different concepts were studied each with a different Powerplant or number of engines but the main design itself was borrowed from the H-6 enlarged and aerodynamically refined. All concepts we know so far featured mid-mounted sweepback wings and a Tu-16-like tail arrangement. The fuselage comprised front and rear electronic compartments with a large bomb-bay (8.6 m  1.8 m  2.72 m) in the centre of the aircraft which is found in between two internal fuel tanks. The attack munitions consist of 1-3 air-to-ground missiles. The bomb-bay’s maximum capability was 18 tons and 100-9,000 kg of stores could be hung under the wings. Self-defence ranges from onboard cannons to rockets to ECM systems. The crew consisted of six people with the front compartment providing space for the pilot, co-pilot, navigator and radar navigator, whereas the rear compartment provided room for the gunner and a radio communicator.

The main onboard systems include third generation navigation/bombing systems and Type 414 radar guided landing system. Wingspan was to be 46.47 m and the length 48.50 m.
The H-8 was to be powered by four Type 910 turbofan engines, each with a thrust of 107.9 kN or – as a backup plan – six 6 JT-3D-3B turbofan engines, each rated at 80 kN in airliner-style nacelles. It seems that studies even included a much larger bomber looking featuring a non-circular fuselage with a Tu-95-like tail powered by six turbofan engines of an unknown kind which looked like the one on that concept drawing.

In the end only the H-6I reached the test-flight stage and was finally abandoned like the H-8. Filling the capability gap was once again the task of another H-6A’s upgraded to “new” versions.

After that latest H-8 there were several rumors about a supersonic H-9 sometimes described similar to a Tu-22 or Tu-135 and even the Sukhoi T-4, but (for my opinion) these are all rumors and all published pictures are misinterpreted Russian or Soviet wind-tunnel models. Latest considerations suggest that there may have been studies without any H-x designation and the PLAAF still soldieres on only with improved H-6 versions until a possible replacement (maybe the Su-32FN/Su-34) can replace them.

Cheers, Deino

PS: Wellcome on board here and ... as for posting pictures; just click on "Additional Options" below the standard "text field" !!
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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I think the F-117 copy story was started by a Chinese announcement (around 1992 I think) that they had mastered stealth technology and flown a prototype.
 

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Pure fantasy and nothing more but if that satisfy you... ;D
 

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Deino

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As there are still several rumours or discussions about a possible future bomber, which could replace the H-6 I just had an idea if this be a suggestion of a feasible Chinese replacement for the H-6 ?? ???

It’s one of several studies from Boeing during the early days of the ATB-project, which led to the B-2 and I was quite surprised how simple and conventional this study was. :eek:

Source: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/foru...hp?topic=602.0

Any ideas or comments ! With the technology capabilities of today this should be possible ....

Cheers, Deino
 

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TinWing

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Deino said:
Any ideas or comments ! With the technology capabilities of today this should be possible ....

Cheers, Deino

This design study looks like the antithesis of the B-1. Not surprising, when you consider that the B-1 met with some very convincing budgetary arguement in the Carter administration.

This very conventional concept appears to have a boost engine in the tail for takeoffs, just like later versions of the Trident. Perhaps the canard are a concession to takeoff performance, or perhaps Boeing invisioned this as a low-level platform like the B-1. I'm not sure what the engines are, but if you take the caption literally, the JT8D-200 series was about the only "medium bypass" engine at the time. The whole thing looks like it is slightly larger than a first generation 737.
 

Matej

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China needs to replace H-6 with something, but it heavily depends on tasks you want to satisfy with the new bomber. If the main purpose is to launch cruise missiles or some sort of stand-off weapons, then yes, it is enoug to satisfy your needs. But if the task is to penetrate enemy airspace and attack defended targets with something similar to JDAM, with this design it is nearly impossible. One single SAM will shoot it down.
 

TinWing

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Matej said:
China needs to replace H-6 with something, but it heavily depends on tasks you want to satisfy with the new bomber. If the main purpose is to launch cruise missiles or some sort of stand-off weapons, then yes, it is enoug to satisfy your needs. But if the task is to penetrate enemy airspace and attack defended targets with something similar to JDAM, with this design it is nearly impossible. One single SAM will shoot it down.

Are you forgetting recent history?

In recent conflicts, bomber forces have seen absolutely no attrition due to enemy air defenses. The biggest problem these days is finding platform with enough range to reach the enemy and to loiter over his territory.

Low observability is desirable but not absolutely essential.
 

Matej

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I just considered targets against which can China fight - Taiwan, Japan, Russia, South Korea... Nothing easy - all heavily defended ;) Maybe Tibet is the easy target, but you dont need to use bombers against monks on donkeys. ;D They dont need B-2, but something like B-1B - thats my opinion.
 

XP67_Moonbat

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Matej,

Where did you find the fantasy Chinese stealth at? I might be fantasy but it still looks good anyway.
 

Just call me Ray

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Matej said:
China needs to replace H-6 with something

Matej said:
I just considered targets against which can China fight - Taiwan, Japan, Russia, South Korea... Nothing easy - all heavily defended ;) Maybe Tibet is the easy target, but you dont need to use bombers against monks on donkeys. ;D

Maybe we need to remember the realities of what the geopolitical situation is, and maybe we don't need China to replace the H-6, if you get what I mean.
 

Matej

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avatar said:
http://www.cnet.com/8301-13639_1-9894658-42.htm

Bullshit?

Funny that this "bomber" looks more like heavily armored tank. Who did this fantasy CG images should draw it also thinner. It is much more fat than it shoud be.

Where did you find the fantasy Chinese stealth at? I might be fantasy but it still looks good anyway.

Huh, difficult to answer - a lot of time ago. The hightest probability goes to art, published somewhere on the aviation forum (Abovetopsecret? Key-publishing?)
 

Just call me Ray

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To be fair (though it's probably a fantasy concept), it doesn't have to be thin to be very stealthy - maybe they were trying to imply very large bomb bays.
 

RAJ47

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Found this picture trying to find H-8
Chinese+H-8Stealth+bomber.jpg

I wonder if it is for real.
The blog says it is CGI.
 

SOC

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Definitely CGI.
 

elmayerle

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Nice concept but those exhausts are going to need some very high-temp RAM to keep their signature down as there are some good reflectors there. I doubt that's a real aircraft.
 

flateric

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RAJ47, please think twice before posting such a statement next time
Chinese stealth bomber, at least in form of these unrealistic from aerodynamics point of view CGIs, is a myth
 

kaiserbill

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I've always thought that China should perhaps rather re-engine the H-6. Some of the airframes are relatively new build, yet it's turbojet engines are virtually antique. I always thought re-engining with J-8's or an even more modern slimline turbofan, such as those used on the upgraded Nimrods would do great things to extend the range somewhat, probably by as much as 25 to 30%.
 

RAJ47

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The ski jump facility is a reality.

I was just trying to share my thoughts and share the information I found on the net.
I have said in my first post on this topic
The blog says it is CGI.
Well, some more CGIs.

China is well known for its false propaganda especially in showing off future technology. Just like they do about DF-41 missiles. I don't want anybody to feel that these images are reality but we should not take China lightly.
Please read this article http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/nov/23/20061123-122450-1979r/
China seems to be making all out efforts to acquire stealth technology since 2002 as per this report.
Six to seven years should be enough to build a stealth bomber if you get everything on the platter.
I forgot to mention, the banner says Heartiest Congratulations Our Country's (China's) "Hong 10".
 

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XP67_Moonbat

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I hate to say it but this sort of idle speculation without actual verification and hard facts belongs on ATS.com (it's up there with flaming pumpkinseeds). Those Chinese CGI planes are nothing more than that. We do try to keep it real here. In the future, please exercise better judgement when posting on this forum. Thanks.

fellow Forum member
 

SOC

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An LO bomber for China makes no sense. With all the effort they've put into cruise missiles, there is no need for an H-6 replacement. The H-6 is China's B-52: good for standoff missile attacks, but worthless in any sort of air defense environment.

LO fighters like the XXJ make sense, but an LO bomber, expecially something in the B-2 class, makes no sense.
 

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http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2013/03/new-chinese-bomber-a-flying-wi.html
 

Kryptid

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Although I agree that this design is fantasy, I say we cut him some slack. We can't expect every person who posts on this discussion board to be an expert on aerodynamics or VLO shaping (I don't consider myself to be an expert on those matters myself).
 

antigravite

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Hi,


here is a piece of information that might be related to his effort.
In late 2011, a team of researchers from Beihan university patented a stealth airrcraft simulation software (se reference below)


A.


AUTOR LI YING, ; HUANG JUN, ; MO SONG, ; CHEN NANYU, ; HONG SHENG

TTL/ Aircraft dynamic comprehensive stealth performance evaluation software simulation platform and construction method thereof

ABSTRACT-EN/ The invention discloses an aircraft dynamic comprehensive stealth performance evaluation software simulation platform which comprises a database, an analog server, a control console and a client end, wherein the database stores various kinds of data required by analog, the analog server calls data required by calculation from the database and calculates a movement condition of a launch vehicle during each step, a detection condition of a detector and an attack condition of a guided missile; the client end is connected to the database and the analog server and is used for inputting various kinds of required data into the database and controlling the movement condition of the launch vehicle in a simulation environment, the detection mode of the detector and the launch of the guided missile through the analog server; and the control console is connected to the database and the analog server and used for inputting prestored data required by the analog to the database and controlling the operation and the stop of the analog server. A construction method of the aircraft dynamic comprehensive stealth performance evaluation software simulation platform comprises the three steps. The aircraft dynamic comprehensive stealth performance evaluation software simulation platform has a wide application prospect in the technical field of stealth and evaluation of modern aircrafts.
 

Deino

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RAJ47 said:
Hi!!!
we have seen these images before
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3wZSwFvZzqM/SoCHUnu4CmI/AAAAAAAACxE/ft_4iGWh3nE/s1600-h/4.jpg
and
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3wZSwFvZzqM/SoCHY1lXc0I/AAAAAAAACxM/pNbTwyur610/s1600-h/5.jpg
this ski jump test facility at Xian Yangliang could also be used for testing this kind of a stealth H-8. the recently constructed hangers could hold two of such aircrafts.


Sorry, but I think we should be realistic !! Why do You think that these ramps should be related to the H-8 ???? ??? .... this is simply the facility for the J-15.


RAJ47 said:
...
China is well known for its false propaganda especially in showing off future technology.
...

First of all it's not CHINA, but a huge and growing community of fans, enthusiasts and even more problematic some 'idiots' with too much time to produce such CG's (some of quite remarkable quality while other - like this one - clearly crap !).

As such we need to be careful from what "source" it comes: There are these fantasies and some more or less hidden news revealed by the so called 'big shrimps' ... and to know who's who needs time ! These images above are well known for years and really not more worth than the Iranian F-313, but that does not mean that there is a project behind and given the latest information by some 'big shrimps' it seems indeed that there is such a project and again even if some here in these forums might think "it is useless", "we know better", ... it seems that there are two different concepts with two different configurations under consideration ... but it will take time and we surely won't see anything before the end of the next decade.

Deino
 

donnage99

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Deino said:
it seems that there are two different concepts with two different configurations under consideration ... but it will take time and we surely won't see anything before the end of the next decade.

Deino
Do you know if both configurations flying wing designs?
 

Deino

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Hmmm ... via Huitong:

http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.de/p/attack-aircraft-ii.html

New long-range strategic bomber designs (H-X) have been explored at 603 Institute/XAC since late 90s. One configuration was a supersonic bomber with a conventional design (delta wings with canards?) , another was a 4-engine stealth flying wing design similar to American B-2. Scale-down models were built. The final configuration selected by PLAAF which will go into full-scale development seems more likely to be the flying wing design. The engine could be the modified WS-10 without A/B. The aircraft is expected to carry CJ-10K/CJ-20K ALCMs internally on a rotary launcher. H-X is believed to be able to evade modern air defence systems and penetrate deep into the enemy territory. The latest news (March 2013) suggested that the development of H-X (referred to as the "strategic project") is gaining full speed at 603/XAC after the successful flight of Y-20.
 

chuck4

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No supercruising stealth bomber? It would have been a more interesting and exciting aircraft, and possibly also more survivable in longer run.


But due to geography and lack of Chinese oversea bases, even a Chinese long range bomber would seem to me to have to primarily assume a (large) theater strike or interdiction role over the west pacific, and not a strategic bombing role against the US. It would be used more similarly to backfire, then the B-2, regardless of its technological level or design.
 

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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
Bad Chinese photoshop job - relevance to this topic?

well i didnt wanted to start a new thread about it, and you could consider it as an evolution of B-2.
 

flateric

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from Hui Tong page


http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.ru/p/attack-aircraft-ii.html

"New long-range strategic bomber designs (H-20?) have been studied at 603 Institute/XAC since late 90s. One configuration was a supersonic bomber with a conventional (delta wings with canards?) design, another was a 4-engine subsonic stealth flying wing design similar to American B-2. Scale-down models were built. By 2011 the overall configuration was finialized which appears be the flying wing design. The engine could be the modified WS-10 without A/B. However its prototype might be powered initially by WS-18. The aircraft is expected to carry CJ-10K/CJ-20K ALCMs internally on a rotary launcher. H-20 is believed to be able to evade modern air defence systems and penetrate deep into the enemy territory. The latest news (March 2013) suggested that the development of H-20 (referred to as the "strategic project") is gaining full speed at 603/XAC after the successful flight of Y-20."
-Last updated 7/15/13
 

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antigravite

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Guys;

If that's for real, this is far from being a funny Christmas gift.

The only question is: is this for real?
And I am NOT taking about CGI. Please take your time to look at the pictures.

source: http://bbs.tiexue.net/post_7023407_1.html

Deino, and all China watchers, the ball is now in your court.

Could all SPF members look into that, please?

Yes, please.

A.
 

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flateric

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that's obvious old fanart BS, except first PSed B-2 (which is 2 months old BS)
 

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