Chengdu J-20 news and analysis Part III

Well Sferrin's point is that.

In order to control the UAV the aircraft has to emit. Datalink or communication has two kinds of antenna, a blade with wide beamwidth and a pencil beam highly directional antenna.

The wide beamwidth antenna may betray stealth as it radiates in practically all direction with equal strength (aka omnidirectional or -almost- omnidirectional). The pencil beamwidth one often works in high frequency have smaller and highly directional beam which can be steered electronically like phased array. The latter is preferred method as not only highly directional with controlled sidelobes which makes ESM life hard, higher signal strength and therefore bandwidth can be gained.

This highly directional communication beam can be generated from dedicated datalink antenna like MADL or be part of the radar's operating modes.

I would assume J-20 radar will include such mode. This allows transmission and reception of good quality high bandwidth signal from long range.
 
stealthflanker said:
Well Sferrin's point is that.

In order to control the UAV the aircraft has to emit. Datalink or communication has two kinds of antenna, a blade with wide beamwidth and a pencil beam highly directional antenna.

The wide beamwidth antenna may betray stealth as it radiates in practically all direction with equal strength (aka omnidirectional or -almost- omnidirectional). The pencil beamwidth one often works in high frequency have smaller and highly directional beam which can be steered electronically like phased array. The latter is preferred method as not only highly directional with controlled sidelobes which makes ESM life hard, higher signal strength and therefore bandwidth can be gained.

This highly directional communication beam can be generated from dedicated datalink antenna like MADL or be part of the radar's operating modes.

I would assume J-20 radar will include such mode. This allows transmission and reception of good quality high bandwidth signal from long range.
Click to expand...

If the J-20B were to have a link-16 type datalink I would think that it would use internal antenna something similar to what the F-22 has instead of external blade antenna that would degrade the J-20B's stealth capability.
 
FighterJock said:
stealthflanker said:
Well Sferrin's point is that.

In order to control the UAV the aircraft has to emit. Datalink or communication has two kinds of antenna, a blade with wide beamwidth and a pencil beam highly directional antenna.

The wide beamwidth antenna may betray stealth as it radiates in practically all direction with equal strength (aka omnidirectional or -almost- omnidirectional). The pencil beamwidth one often works in high frequency have smaller and highly directional beam which can be steered electronically like phased array. The latter is preferred method as not only highly directional with controlled sidelobes which makes ESM life hard, higher signal strength and therefore bandwidth can be gained.

This highly directional communication beam can be generated from dedicated datalink antenna like MADL or be part of the radar's operating modes.

I would assume J-20 radar will include such mode. This allows transmission and reception of good quality high bandwidth signal from long range.
Click to expand...

If the J-20B were to have a link-16 type datalink I would think that it would use internal antenna something similar to what the F-22 has instead of external blade antenna that would degrade the J-20B's stealth capability.
Click to expand...
External blades can be integrated into surface edges.
 
FighterJock said:
stealthflanker said:
Well Sferrin's point is that.

In order to control the UAV the aircraft has to emit. Datalink or communication has two kinds of antenna, a blade with wide beamwidth and a pencil beam highly directional antenna.

The wide beamwidth antenna may betray stealth as it radiates in practically all direction with equal strength (aka omnidirectional or -almost- omnidirectional). The pencil beamwidth one often works in high frequency have smaller and highly directional beam which can be steered electronically like phased array. The latter is preferred method as not only highly directional with controlled sidelobes which makes ESM life hard, higher signal strength and therefore bandwidth can be gained.

This highly directional communication beam can be generated from dedicated datalink antenna like MADL or be part of the radar's operating modes.

I would assume J-20 radar will include such mode. This allows transmission and reception of good quality high bandwidth signal from long range.
Click to expand...

If the J-20B were to have a link-16 type datalink I would think that it would use internal antenna something similar to what the F-22 has instead of external blade antenna that would degrade the J-20B's stealth capability.
Click to expand...

Link 16 equivalent as the primary datalink for a 5th generation fighter would be somewhat obsolete.

Higher bandwidth and more stealthy directional datalinks is the norm for 5th gens, like MADL and IFDL, which should already be present on standard J-20s anyhow as a requisite baseline capability.


The twin seater obviously would offer enhanced UAV control capability compared to the standard single seater, but imo the greater significance is one of generally significantly greater enhanced battle management and command capabilities, leveraging the aircraft's sensor suite, avionics and networking capability, which along with increased automation of modern aircraft (that's likely to further advance with time as well), can allow a twin seater J-20 to take on part of the AEW&C/airborne command post mission but in a far more survivable and distributed manner.

I.e. I see a twin seater J-20S as having the greatest effect for moving towards a more distributed AEWC capability in the long term. Though for now, obviously a twin seater J-20S will complement existing traditional AEWC capabilities.
 
I think that there could be a whole range of different future mission types for the J-20B, not just a UCAV controller with loyal wingman drones. Expect to see different designations in the near future.
 
FighterJock said:
I think that there could be a whole range of different future mission types for the J-20B, not just a UCAV controller with loyal wingman drones. Expect to see different designations in the near future.
Click to expand...

Also serves as a nice R&D platform for other projects.
 
Is there a fairing over the nozzles? Something looks different there. it might just be low res image.
 
Managing UAS doesn't take a lot of bandwidth from the controller's end. "Sic 'im, Towser!"
 
LowObservable said:
Managing UAS doesn't take a lot of bandwidth from the controller's end. "Sic 'im, Towser!"
Click to expand...

I think it depends on how many UAVs you are aiming to manage and also the sophistication of the UAVs in question, even with increasing automation. You still need a human being to take the information and options to make tactical decisions after all.

Also, the additional general battle management roles that the second human will be tasked with (which controlling UAVs is likely to be a subset).

If you want to manage a couple of dozen of stealthy UCAVs while also acting as battle management quarterback for dozens of manned fighters and supplementing traditional AEWC, all in a high end battlespace with heavy interference and large numbers of capable opfor aircraft, even automation and AI will still limit the number of tasks and decisions that a human being can make in a given time, acting as the rate limiting step.
 
Blitzo said:
overscan (PaulMM) said:
The video looked real.
Click to expand...

The video is definitely real.

the picture that was originally in post #909 was doctored however (and not a very good one at that), and it is that picture which Deino was referring to as fake.
Click to expand...

So it was the picture that was the fake, I have been duped in the past with photo's allegedly showing the H-20 bomber. And now they (the photoshoppers) are at it again with the J-20B.Damn them. :mad:
 
FighterJock said:
Blitzo said:
overscan (PaulMM) said:
The video looked real.
Click to expand...

The video is definitely real.

the picture that was originally in post #909 was doctored however (and not a very good one at that), and it is that picture which Deino was referring to as fake.
Click to expand...

So it was the picture that was the fake, I have been duped in the past with photo's allegedly showing the H-20 bomber. And now they (the photoshoppers) are at it again with the J-20B.Damn them. :mad:
Click to expand...


Sorry for my confusing explanation ... only the very clear side view was fake, this one is surely real:

J-20B twin seater - taxi test - 20211027 - 1 part XL.jpg
 
Same here Deino, keep up the good work. It must be hard trying to get good information the latest Chinese Military Aviation projects, and to filter out which is real and which is fake.
 
So I'm assuming that because the primer goes all the way to the nose there is no radome and hence no radar and so this will probably be a flight sciences prototype to evaluate air vehicle performance and flying qualities?
 
Does the rear seat include an ejection apparatus? Looking at the canopy... looks a little tight going up, lol. Probably just image skewing.
 
As it seem, it is indeed true, the J-20B prototype serial numbered 2031 performed its maiden flight today. So congrats again to CAC.

(Image via @siegecrossbow/SDF)

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FDbl2OMXMAQ6cP4
 
Deino said:
As it seem, it is indeed true, the J-20B prototype serial numbered 2031 performed its maiden flight today. So congrats again to CAC.

(Image via @siegecrossbow/SDF)

FDbld2wXsAAwYvf


FDbl2OMXMAQ6cP4
Click to expand...

First J-20 demonstrator: 2001
First J-20 prototype: 2011
First J-20 prototype using WS-10 engines: 2021
First twin-seater J-20: 2031
First WS-15 equipped J-20: ????
 
Has the J-20B got a single canopy or two split canopy's for the back seater? It is hard to tell from the photo's. :confused:
 

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