• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

CAPRA/MATRA Projects

Orionblamblam

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
7,906
Reaction score
1,140
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
raravia said:
an aircraft of a designer whose name is F. Capra, to be honest, until yesterday i didn´t know this company existed. But it seems he offered some designs to the french government before the war, but they never bought them, later Capra emigrated to USA where he worked for Lockheed.
The Capra R-90, a very interesting twin hull hydroplane transport of 1938 or 39.

How in *the* *hell* is it supposed to take off? The props would hit the water.


NOTE: original pic posted by raravia attached here for continuity after splitting initial topic.
 

Attachments

  • CAPRA_R90 Francia.jpg
    CAPRA_R90 Francia.jpg
    20.5 KB · Views: 439

raravia

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
90
Reaction score
5
He he he....

Good question Orionblam!

Perhaps that´s why the french government never bought the project.

Paul, let´s wait for new clues about those birds. Maybe our friend Antonio (Pometlava) has something to say about it.

Raravia
 

Archibald

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
4,213
Reaction score
1,737
CAPRA was the former name of MATRA, which is now a famous AAM maker (R-530, Super 530, MICA, Magic). The society changed its name some month before WWII. Last project was the R-130, an incredible machine (no scanner here sadly but I can describe it)
Concerning the R-90, it was a very complicated design and clearly the propellers stopped before water landing.
 

Archibald

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
4,213
Reaction score
1,737
Here's a small mock-up of the R-130...
This project was to reach mach.2 in 1949!
For take off, two big, straight wings were extended. when mach 0.7 was reach, a kind of "tube" around the main body of the plane was turned at 90°, the big wings now vertical were switch off, and the aircraft flew at supersonic speed! A ramjet permitted the aceleration to mach2... for only 6mn!!!
 

Attachments

  • matra_r130_01.jpg
    matra_r130_01.jpg
    21.2 KB · Views: 1,282

raravia

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
90
Reaction score
5
Merci Archibald

It is a great beginning to research.

Like i said before, i didn´t knew nothing about the Capra company until a few days ago.

I think the R-90 it´s a very interesting plane, because his twin hull fuselages, and two engines. For me it´s daring to think try to landing on the sea with the engines stopped, specially if the sea is rough.

Amazing this R-130, is full ahead for this time!!!!

very ambitious project, where i could find more info about it?

I found in the same forum another Capra model the R-46, a fighter trainer design.Pretty conventional, but interesting too.

Enjoy it

Saludos

Raravia
 

Attachments

  • capra_R46_entrenador_1939_francia.jpg
    capra_R46_entrenador_1939_francia.jpg
    16.1 KB · Views: 1,157

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,686
Reaction score
3,469
after I sereach ,I find that Capra/Matra aircraft and projects as I know are:

R-40,R-46,R-71,R-72,R-74,R-75,R-80,R-90,R-100,R-110,R-120 and R-130.
 

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,225
Reaction score
931
At least the Matra R.130 was shown, somewhere here in this forum, I think...
It's the weird design with swing wings, which become fins after a rotation of
90 degrees of the fuselage, except the cockpit section
 

Archibald

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
4,213
Reaction score
1,737
Yes sir!!! I posted some photos and datas about it recently...
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,686
Reaction score
3,469
Hi,

The CAPRA/Matra R.40 was twin engined fighter project,
if someone has any details,it is great.
 

lark

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,805
Reaction score
70
Capra R 40

Span : 13.90m
lenght : 10.52m
wing surface : 26.30m2
max speed at 4000m :585km/h
ceiling max 10.000m
radius of action 1350km with speed of 520km/h
engines : two Hispano-Suiza 12Y

The design started life as a single seater.Later it evolved into a 2-seater

6 forward firing MG's of 7.5mm(MAC 1934M-39)
2 Hispano-Suiza 404 guns of 20mm
3 MAC 1934 guns for rear defence.

Mock up and all documentation destroyed because of the invasion in June 1940.

source : Le Fana de L'Aviation No.402
 

Maveric

Fight for yor Right!
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
1,961
Reaction score
324
Hi all,

I search for a biography of the french aircraft-firm C.A.P.R.A. I know only the project R.46, anybody have more info about this company and his aircraft?

Servus Maveric
 

Attachments

  • capra r46.jpg
    capra r46.jpg
    10.1 KB · Views: 782

Maveric

Fight for yor Right!
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
1,961
Reaction score
324
Hi all,

I need some info´s of the french company M.A.T.R.A. I know some unmanned rockets after WWII, but only the pics on Thope´s webside (Twin boom aircraft). Please help with a company history and his aircraft projects.

Servus Maveric
 

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,225
Reaction score
931
One example, already shown by Tophe, here as a 3-view, the
R-74 light aircraft:
(from Le Fana)
 

Attachments

  • R-74.GIF
    R-74.GIF
    53.9 KB · Views: 526

Deltafan

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
1,015
Reaction score
343
I must see in my files, but i cannot bring photos here because of my bad web-connexion...

first answers :

Matra - Mechanique-Aviation-Traction - was formed in 1942 from the CAPRA Group as an aeronautical research firm and consultancy. Though it did not design and develop whole planes, it built prototype and experimental aircraft to order for clients (as well as missiles) and studied concepts such as aerodynamics and high-performance composite plastics. With a view to applying this knowledge to the automotive sector, Matra bought Rene Bonnet's sports car firm in 1964. Bonnet had been making racers with a partner, Charles Deutsch, under the DB name, and both men were friends of CAPRA founder Marcel Chassaugny, who had provided funding for DB before

http://www.channel4.com/4car/ft/feature/retrospective/6074/1

Marcel Chassagny was born in Paris on 4 October 1903. At the age of 20, he graduated from the business school École des Hautes Études Commerciales. In 1937 he founded the company CAPRA (Compagnie Anonyme de Productions Aéronautiques) which supplied the French aircraft and automobile industry.

After the end of the Second World War, he founded Matra (Mécanique Aviation Traction) in Paris. The company designed and built the prototype for a twin-engine, twin-fuselage combat aircraft. With a speed of 800 km/h, it was to become the fastest propeller aircraft in the world. A year later, his company received a contract from the French Ministry of Aviation to develop airborne weapons and by 1950 the first tactical missile, the M 04 No. 1, had already flown.

In the nineteen-fifties, Chassagny developed his activities in the rocket and guided missile sector. In 1961, his company moved into the field of space technology and built the first French experimental satellite, the A 1. From this point onwards, Matra advanced to become one of the leading European companies in the area of satellite and missile technology. The company was also a household name in automobile construction and transport technology.

http://www.eads.com/1024/en/eads/history/wings_of_time/pioneers/chassagny.html
 

Deltafan

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
1,015
Reaction score
343
Well, it's a big job for my poor english...

FANA DE L'AVIATION (Jacques Moulin) (i have only 4 pages. The last page lacks. I don't know the month or year of the article, but it's not too old) :

Roger Aimé Robert (born in 1899) worked from 1928 for the Société des Avions Bernard (SAB). He worked in the race office on the Oiseau Canari (It flew through the Atlantic Ocean), the floatplanes HV 220 an HV 320 (the two never flew) and the V4 (never flown too). The SAB made bankruptcy. Robert worked then for the japanese Nakajima company, probably to build the Ki-12.
Marcel Chassagny was chosen to manage the bankruptcy of the SAB company. He decided to create the new Compagnie Anonyme de Productions et Réalisations Aéronautiques (CAPRA). Robert worked for CAPRA.
At first CAPRA worked for others company. The biggest work was to build fuselages for the LeO 45 bombers.

In 1938 CAPRA decided to build a race plane for the Deutsch de la Meurthe cup, the RR or S20. The prototype was finished in july 1939 but it never got the engine for the cup (it was the same 400 hp Bearn 12 A engine for all the competitors but it failed to be built). Because of the war, the project was abandoned.

A derivative of the RR 20 was studied : the R 30 (it is named R 300 or R 46 too) with a 350 hp Bearn 6 C engine.

In 1938 the french air ministry ordered a study for a heavy fighter to CAPRA. With the end of the RR the work about the heavy fighter began. It was the CAPRA R 40 with two 800 hp Hispano-Suiza 12 Y 50 or 51 engines. The prototype was ordered the 7th of february 1940. At first the project was a one seat, but became a two seats (with a rear 20 mm machine gun). A 1/1 model was finished but destroyed when France collapsed.

In 1942 there was a study about a little R-400 model, but it was a little different of the R 40.

A R 41 derivative of the R 40 with two Hispano Suiza 12 Z 89 (1300 to 1600 hp) was studied.

The last page lacks...
It's wrote about the 'portugese adventure' of the R 80 and R 90. I have data about the R-80 : 3750 hp, payload 1850 kg, length 24.25 m, span 24.83 m

The first page shows the MATRA R-100 project. It was a twin boom plane with one (or two ?) central rear contra propeller engine(s).
 

lark

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,805
Reaction score
70
For the record...
Le Fana de l'Aviation N° 402 - May 2003 : Matra avant the missiles.(Matra before the missiles)
article by Jacques Moullin -14 pages of absorbing reading....
 

Maveric

Fight for yor Right!
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
1,961
Reaction score
324
Hi all,

I search for a drawing for the french C.A.P.R.A. R.30 (sometimes R.300 or R.46) and technical data for this bird.
Do you have some informations about the R.50 and R.60 ??? ??? ???

Best regards

Maveric
 

swallow

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
59
Reaction score
5
Hi Maveric.

( C.A.P.R.A.) Compagnie Anonyme de Productions Aéronautique.
You will find a drawing on Air Pictorial March 1970 of the R.46 pag 99.
It was a single-seat fighter trainer , constructed entirely of metal.
Speed : 539 km/u , with a retracted undercarriage , but was never built.

No info of R.50 and R60 , sorry

Source : AIR PICTORIAL March 1970.

Swallow.
 

richard

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
571
Reaction score
34
In Aviation Magazine ,there is a 3-views of a " CAPRA RR " designed for the 1939 "Coupe Deutsch".

By the way ,CAPRA was created in 1938 on the ex BERNARD factories,with Bernard 's designers ,and became after the war the famous MATRA .
 

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
4,227
Reaction score
1,871
Fighter projects
sources
-B.C.F.K. publications-five views album-1973
-unknown magazine photocopy-via Tophe
 

Attachments

  • Escanear0003.jpg
    Escanear0003.jpg
    450 KB · Views: 293
  • Escanear0002.jpg
    Escanear0002.jpg
    340.1 KB · Views: 308
  • Escanear0001.jpg
    Escanear0001.jpg
    326.3 KB · Views: 465

elmayerle

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
1,345
Reaction score
117
Egad, taxi-ing that one would be quite a trial with the restricted ground visibility the pilot had. It *might* work for a racing plane but definitely not for a fighter.
 

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,225
Reaction score
931
Interesting, that the R.46 is called a fighter trainer here, not a real fighter, as in other
publications. But it seems a bit strange to me, to turn a high-performance racer, probably
not with the easiest handling characteristics, into a trainer for novice pilots ! If they can
handle this one, they can handle everything else, too ? :-\
 

c460

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
395
Reaction score
24
Interesting. What is the source of these scans?

About the RR, it was also called S.20. The R letter in the CAPRA projects is for the designer Roger Robert, and RR surely corresponds to the man's initials.

There is a very good article by Jean Moulin in Le Fana no.402, on all CAPRA aircraft. The author makes no mention of a second aircraft, and the text seems to imply that the construction of the prototype was well advanced, but never completed (notably the engine was never ready). Therefore I have doubts about the info in the second scan: "the 01 was finished and ready to fly by September 1939 and the 02 was unfinished".

There are small scale drawings of the RR in this article of Le Fana, and in Le Trait d'Union no.205. I would guess all the drawings are based on the same original document.

I have some difficulty with minor details in the drawing that was posted. The Béarn 12A engine has twelve cylinders vertically opposed in two rows, and I would expect exhaust pipes at the top and bottom, not on the sides. Also, the powerplant is air-cooled and I would expect larger air intakes above and below the spinner, to cool both rows of cylinders. However the same weird details (exhaust pipes on the side and small air intakes under the nose) appear on the drawing in by Jacques Moulin in Le Fana, so they may be present in the original document as well ???

For the R.46, Jacques Moulin mentions both the light fighter and the fighter trainer programs. He says that the project was also called R.30 or R.300. (My own speculative guess is that R.30/300 and R.46 were separate names for the armed and unarmed versions.) The same author says that the Béarn 6C engine was slanted by 45 degrees for better forward visibility. This powerplant was a straight-6 and was surely air-cooled too, so I would expect a completely different cowling.

By the way, see also these other posts on CAPRA:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7795.0.html
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3982.0.html
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3983.0.html
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,686
Reaction score
3,469
Hi,

R.10 perhaps was a plane with record considered Settlements Vermorel.
R.80 three engined mail carrier transatlantic flying boat.

And for R.100,R.110 and R.75;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1149.0/highlight,matra.html
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3302.0/highlight,matra.html
 

Silencer1

That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
617
Reaction score
127
Hi!

Fresh article on Jacques MOULIN' site:
"L'ingénieur Roger Robert"

http://aerophile.over-blog.com/article-l-ingenieur-roger-robert-50210915.html

No pictures, except the portrait of Robert.
 

richard

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
571
Reaction score
34
Here ,the CAPRA "RR"project for "Coupe Deutsch 1939".

It was actually built ,but never flown.
 

Attachments

  • r.jpg
    r.jpg
    151.3 KB · Views: 522

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,225
Reaction score
931
From Le Fana d'Aviation another 3-view of the RR 20 and a rendering
of the R 40:
 

Attachments

  • Capra_R-40.jpg
    Capra_R-40.jpg
    55.3 KB · Views: 490
  • Capra_RR-20.jpg
    Capra_RR-20.jpg
    62.8 KB · Views: 608

Tophe

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,150
Reaction score
37
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
The R.90 was a kind of Twin R.80, taking off from a catapult and coming back in the water as a glider, due to diameter of propellers that would hurt the water, so locked horizontal for water contact.
Source of picture: my free books at http://cmeunier.chez-alice.fr/Free_EoFG_MV.htm
 

Attachments

  • r90d.JPG
    r90d.JPG
    42.8 KB · Views: 308

Silencer1

That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
617
Reaction score
127
Hi!

Aerophile's blog update - a lot of text and pictures of certain Matra/CARPA designs:

MATRA R-75
CAPRA / MATRA R.74
CAPRA R.40 C2 et R.41 C2
CAPRA RR R 20
CAPRA R.30 R.300

French language only :cool:
 

Attachments

  • File7738_WEB.jpg
    File7738_WEB.jpg
    30.3 KB · Views: 265

Tophe

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,150
Reaction score
37
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
The CAPRA R.90 patent is there
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/mosaics?CC=FR&NR=930991A&KC=A&FT=D&date=19480210&DB=EPODOC&locale=fr_fr
(thanks John once more)
 

Tophe

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,150
Reaction score
37
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
A preliminary patent (1937) of Roger Robert is the FR829802
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=FR&NR=829802
 

Attachments

  • r_fr829802_.JPG
    r_fr829802_.JPG
    24.3 KB · Views: 707

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,686
Reaction score
3,469
Hi,

the R-80;

http://aerophile.over-blog.com/
 

Attachments

  • R-80.jpg
    R-80.jpg
    25 KB · Views: 877

Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
11,773
Reaction score
1,911
Tophe said:
The R.90 was a kind of Twin R.80, taking off from a catapult and coming back in the water as a glider, due to diameter of propellers that would hurt the water, so locked horizontal for water contact.
Source of picture: my free books at http://cmeunier.chez-alice.fr/Free_EoFG_MV.htm

Ship/barge launched? Mail Carrier? One of those 1930's schemes to try and create practical transatlantic air routes?
 

Tophe

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,150
Reaction score
37
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
Yes, this was a mail aircraft for Portugal which was a neutral country and preferred the R.80 (than the 90) then cancelled all order at the end of 1942 (source: Fana de l'Aviation 402, Trait d'Union 71).
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,686
Reaction score
3,469
At first,


we must merge those topics;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3982.0
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3983.0
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8562.0
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7795.0
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,686
Reaction score
3,469
Hi,


here is the CAPRA R-40 drawing and its mock-up,from TU 70 magazine.
 

Attachments

  • 40-3.png
    40-3.png
    400.4 KB · Views: 75
  • 40-2.png
    40-2.png
    448.4 KB · Views: 432
  • 40-1.png
    40-1.png
    422.6 KB · Views: 492
  • R-40.png
    R-40.png
    399 KB · Views: 542
  • 40-4.png
    40-4.png
    426.3 KB · Views: 83

galgot

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Messages
896
Reaction score
904
Website
galgot.com
Here some old (ugly :-[ ) renders from 2003, maybe of some interest.
Low poly, Strata 3d.


 

Similar threads

Top