C-130 V/STOL modification projects

AeroFranz

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,394
Reaction score
429
The main rotor is unpowered (this being a gyroplane), so there would be no engine and no gearbox. I can't remember if it's supposed to have tipjets of prespin the rotor for a jumpstart.
 

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599
The concept is the re-incarnation of the Fairey Rotodyne (and that's told by Groen
Brothers Aviation, too) and it uses tipjets, as is mentioned on the companies website,
too (http://www.groenbros.com/).
 

Batman10

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
13
Reaction score
7
Oh I see it like an Auto Gyro, with rockets or jet engines on the rotor tips.

Out of the Box thinking.

Is the real world ready for it yet?

It is part of the renaissance of Blimps / Zeppelins and other aeronautical ideas.

Batman
 

Batman10

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
13
Reaction score
7
The Stretch STOL Article can be found in the issue of Air International October 1977 pg 209,210.
cheers
Batman
 

foiling

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
319
Reaction score
57
Thanks Batman10; I doubt that I have that issue, as I don't recognise the article. Where I live, the local magazine store did not often get the same mags - especially the better ones - in regularly; so much as one might enjoy them, it was very difficult to purchase them consistently. This is still the case, but there are bigger stores in nearby suburbs. I would thus, still enjoy seeing an enlargment of the stretched aircraft - if possible. Thanks.
 

foiling

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
319
Reaction score
57
I found this by chance in Janes 2006 - 2007.
 

Attachments

  • Groen Gyrolifter (Janes 2006-7).jpg
    Groen Gyrolifter (Janes 2006-7).jpg
    406.2 KB · Views: 834

Batman10

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
13
Reaction score
7
There are drawings there is a big one right under the article and the HTTB drawings.
It's all the same concept aircraft as to size.
Lockheed engineers discovered that a C130 or L 100 20 8 feet 4 inches stretch was perfect for the STOL concept. Optimal for what was needed.

This is why and L100-20 was picked as the HTTB vehicle to test and prove these concepts.

Batman
 

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599
Found in AviationWeek June 1960: The C-130B STOL, using boundary layer control
by bleed air supplied by two additional turbojets, housed in underwing pods.
Photos showing the prototype, the turbo jet engine pods (open and closed),
the internal arrangement of the BLC system and a cross section of the flap
and duct system in the wing.
 

Attachments

  • C-130B_STOL_01.jpg
    C-130B_STOL_01.jpg
    64.5 KB · Views: 663
  • C-130B_STOL_02.jpg
    C-130B_STOL_02.jpg
    45.7 KB · Views: 591
  • C-130B_STOL_03.jpg
    C-130B_STOL_03.jpg
    129.7 KB · Views: 553
  • C-130B_STOL_04.jpg
    C-130B_STOL_04.jpg
    124.1 KB · Views: 520
  • C-130B_STOL_05.jpg
    C-130B_STOL_05.jpg
    58.4 KB · Views: 139
  • C-130B_STOL_06.jpg
    C-130B_STOL_06.jpg
    49.6 KB · Views: 156
  • C-130B_STOL_07.jpg
    C-130B_STOL_07.jpg
    91.3 KB · Views: 200

AeroFranz

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,394
Reaction score
429
Thanks Jemiba! this is a topic of interest to me. Does the article say anything about which jet engines it uses and any short field performance metrics (such as stall speed or maximum CLmax achieved)?

Thanks!
 

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599
the jet engines were Allison YT-56-A-6, landing speed for the BLC C-130 was 70 mph
(compared to 105 mph for the unmodified C-130), stall speed was just above 50 mph
(compared to 85 mph). The requirement which resulted in this Lockheed proposal called
for a transport, which could carry a 20.000 lbs 1000 nautical miles out off and into an
unprepared airfield with a length of 500 ft. Cruisingn speed of the BLC C-130 was about
10 kts lower, than of the standard C-130.
 

AeroFranz

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,394
Reaction score
429
Excellent! these are very good performance characteristics from which it's possible to extrapolate the increase in lift (Delta CL) achieved by the BLC system. Will post something when i find my calculator :)
The T56s were the main engines, I assume. Did the article say what the auxiliary jets were? Like J85s or similar small turbojet?

Thanks a lot!
 

fightingirish

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,550
Reaction score
1,249
AeroFranz,
the auxiliary jets or gas generators on that Lockheed NC-130B Hercules s/n 80712 (58-0712)
are YJ56-A-6 engines (or YT56-A-6 depending on source). They were only used to provide bleed air for a boundary-layer control system even though it was a jet version of the T56.
See this Blog: http://herkeng.blogspot.com/2007/05/nc-130b-six-engined-herk.html B)


A beautiful colour picture:
http://www.cloud9photography.us/Military-Aviation-9/Lockheed-C-130-Hercules/9082527_mBRBW/2/723331042_L2Tnx/Large
 

AeroFranz

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,394
Reaction score
429
Thanks for the clarification. Using the same gas generator for the main and auxiliary engines would have had obvious maintenance benefits. Did not know about the straight-jet T56...you learn something new everyday (especially on this forum!) ;)
 

Johnbr

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
758
Reaction score
215
Found on the net today.
 

Attachments

  • c130vtoljetengines1.jpg
    c130vtoljetengines1.jpg
    857.9 KB · Views: 408

Orionblamblam

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
8,977
Reaction score
3,504
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
A result of the same research in augmentor wings that led to the XFV-12. And given that the XFV-12 failed utterly to lurch itself into sky due to unforeseen scaling effects, it's a safe bet that had this plane been built, it would have made a loud noise, would have stirred up the dirt on the runway, and would have just sat there like a dead lump.
 

AeroFranz

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,394
Reaction score
429
We have a thread containing all the Hercules mods. Maybe we should move these posts there.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,552
Reaction score
6,292
From JP4 magazine,


the Lockheed C-130H STOL aircraft.
 

Attachments

  • 1.JPG
    1.JPG
    48.8 KB · Views: 309
  • 2.JPG
    2.JPG
    51.7 KB · Views: 332

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,552
Reaction score
6,292
Hi,

here is a hypothetical VTOL aircraft,used the airframe of C-130.

http://archive.aviationweek.com/image/spread/19620917/6/2
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    181.2 KB · Views: 227

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,552
Reaction score
6,292
Jemiba said:
This project probably fits into several other threads, too, a VTOL
version of the C-130 Hercules, designed by Rockwell.
It was intended to use the thrust-augmented concept, as in the
XFV-12, and my have failed in the same way !
(from Aviation Week 1975 14-21)

A clearer views;

http://archive.aviationweek.com/search?exactphrase=true&QueryTerm=general+electric+sTOL&start=240&rows=20&DocType=Article&Sort=&SortOrder=&startdate=1916-08-01&enddate=2018-09-17&LastViewIssueKey=&LastViewPage=
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    832.9 KB · Views: 884
  • 2.png
    2.png
    335.2 KB · Views: 800
  • 3.png
    3.png
    228.5 KB · Views: 798

elmayerle

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
1,444
Reaction score
327
Many a year ago (summer of 1972 to be exact) Lockheed had a display at the Turin Air Show with a three-view of a proposed V/STOL C-130 variant powered by four Pegasus engines. I do not believe I have seen anything about that since. It would be nice to know more about it.
 

Apophenia

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
2,892
Reaction score
1,569
One of Lockheed's March 1972 AMST submissions had a C-130 fuselage and thrust-vectoring. Maybe that was it? Fairchild also submitted a Pegasus-engined deisng for AMST.

STOL Progenitors: The Technology Path to a Large STOL Transport and the C-17A, Bill Norton, AIAA, 2002, page 51
 

elmayerle

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
1,444
Reaction score
327
Could be. It was a long time ago and my memory is a bit faded. That does sound right, though. Is that reference readily available? It sounds like one I definitely would like.
 

robunos

You're Mad, You Are.....
Senior Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,095
Reaction score
642
AW.681 . . . is that you ? ;D ::)


cheers,
Robin.
 

Apophenia

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
2,892
Reaction score
1,569
Very nice Stephan!

Evan: Bill Norton's book is available on Amazon ... but for silly money :p https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1563475766/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i6
Some pages are available on Google Books.

robunos said:
AW.681 . . . is that you ? ...

;D ;D
 

Archibald

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
7,335
Reaction score
6,325
Now that's one hell of an idea... an Hercules with four Harrier engines. the kind of "what didn't we thought about it before" idea. Although hot gas re-ingestion isues might be... interesting. Or maybe not: it is a STOL and not VTOL. No compressor, cold air.
A SHAR engine was barely ten ton thrust so four of them should be able to lift 40 tons. A Hercules is far heavier than that. So STOL makes more sense than VTOL.
 

Foo Fighter

I came, I saw, I drank some tea (and had a bun).
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
2,450
Reaction score
1,408
STOL with any kind of load like the C-130 makes more sense than VTOL, an engine out situation is a scary scenario in that the ability to transition would be completely impossible so crew/aircraft/load loss would be inevitable.
 

Archibald

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
7,335
Reaction score
6,325
Would have been useful for "credible sport" - the C-130 that was to land in Teheran stadium to land commandos and free the hostages. In place of it they tried to put retrorockets... and it ended pretty badly.
 

stevoe

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
21
Reaction score
16
Here some more pictures, but I don't know where I found this...

Regards
Stephan
 

Attachments

  • C-130 Projects_LG-203X AMST_0002.JPG
    C-130 Projects_LG-203X AMST_0002.JPG
    36 KB · Views: 178
  • C-130 Projects_LG-203X AMST_0003.jpg
    C-130 Projects_LG-203X AMST_0003.jpg
    30.1 KB · Views: 158
  • C-130 Projects_LG-203X AMST_0004.jpg
    C-130 Projects_LG-203X AMST_0004.jpg
    26.6 KB · Views: 472

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,552
Reaction score
6,292
Hi,

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a177750.pdf
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    74.2 KB · Views: 192
  • 4.png
    4.png
    65.5 KB · Views: 170
  • 5.png
    5.png
    53.7 KB · Views: 172
  • 7.png
    7.png
    43 KB · Views: 175
  • 8.png
    8.png
    82.3 KB · Views: 175
  • 9.png
    9.png
    91 KB · Views: 182
  • 10.png
    10.png
    72.2 KB · Views: 177
  • 11.png
    11.png
    38.5 KB · Views: 160

circle-5

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
1,158
Reaction score
233
stevoe said:
Here some more pictures, but I don't know where I found this...

Regards
Stephan

That's not a Hercules modification. That's the Lockheed entry for the C-X competition, which was won by the McDonnell Douglas C-17.
 

masher47

Yesterdays dreams...
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
131
Reaction score
559
Sorry for the warp and quality. Not allowed to lay flat or scan.....
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3085.JPG
    IMG_3085.JPG
    3.3 MB · Views: 165
  • IMG_3084.JPG
    IMG_3084.JPG
    3.4 MB · Views: 144
  • IMG_3083.JPG
    IMG_3083.JPG
    3.2 MB · Views: 130
  • IMG_3082.JPG
    IMG_3082.JPG
    3.1 MB · Views: 119
  • IMG_3081.JPG
    IMG_3081.JPG
    3.7 MB · Views: 112
  • IMG_3080.JPG
    IMG_3080.JPG
    3.4 MB · Views: 140

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
13,687
Reaction score
7,998
That's great, the text is readable at least.

I've considered one of these myself : https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/shine-ultra-next-gen-portable-powerful-scanner#/

It's basically a digital camera on a mount which also projects grid lines onto the page, which allow it to detect the page curve and then compensate in software. It also apparently detects page turns so you don't have to keep pressing a button.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,552
Reaction score
6,292
From Aviation magazine 1963,

here is a small Info about GL-298 STOL aircraft.
 

Attachments

  • GL-298.png
    GL-298.png
    1.8 MB · Views: 151
Top