Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

By the way (re-reading the Def-Aerospace.com article):

We have already demonstrated that the F-35’s costs are being manipulated. But the example of how F-18 costs are boosted to multiples of what the Pentagon is paying for the same aircraft offers a cautionary tale to F-35 buyers.

Even assuming that the F-35’s price drops to $85 million a copy for the US, applying the same cost escalation model as for the Super Hornet indicates that export F-35s could end up costing six times as much, or about $510 million each, once spares, support equipment, training and weapons are added.

!?!
That guy has a problem. Look like a kid making wild conclusion from his own set of assumptions. What's the meaning of having such an eccenctric free to paint his monomaniac diatribe all across the pages of this rather serious website remains a mystery to me.

Why?
 
TomcatViP said:
That guy has a problem. Look like a kid making wild conclusion from his own set of assumptions. What's the meaning of having such an eccenctric free to paint his monomaniac diatribe all across the pages of this rather serious website remains a mystery to me.

Welcome to Giovanni de Briganti - another who lets their hatred of the F-35 cloud their 'work'. He often puts commentary against Media Releases and even tries to manipulate the story headlines to spin it his own twisted way.
 
"U.S. approves sale of 18 Super Hornet jets to Canada for $6.4-billion"

by Daniel Leblanc
Ottawa 2 days ago

Source:
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/us-approves-sale-of-18-super-hornet-jets-to-canada-for-64-billion/article36238437/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

The American government has put a price tag of $6.4-billion on the sale of 18 Super Hornet jets to the Canadian military, even though Ottawa has vowed not to strike a deal with the aircraft's manufacturer, Boeing Co., over an unrelated trade dispute.

In a letter of notification to Congress on Tuesday, the U.S. Department of Defence said it supported the potential military sale to Canada of 18 fighter jets, eight spare engines and other military hardware and equipment.

"This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security objectives of the United States by helping to improve the security of a NATO ally which has been, and continues to be, a key democratic partner of the United States in ensuring peace and stability," the American agency said.

However, the U.S. Department of Defence pointed out that the notice to Congress "does not mean the sale has been concluded."

Ottawa has been engaged in an increasingly bitter dispute with Boeing, which filed a complaint last April against Canadian-based Bombardier Inc. with the U.S. Department of Commerce.

The federal government has used the Super Hornet acquisition as its main bargaining chip in its efforts to get Boeing to drop its case against Bombardier over allegations of illegal subsidies and dumping.

Still, the acquisition of 18 Super Hornets, which Ottawa announced last year, is ongoing throughout the dispute.

On March 13, the federal government sent a formal "letter of request" to the U.S. government in which it laid out the requirements for 18 Super Hornet aircraft, including precise questions on specs, delivery schedule and economic benefits.

"As early as fall 2017, Canada expects to receive a response from the U.S. government. The proposal will be reviewed to determine if the U.S. government can provide the interim solution at a cost, schedule, level of capability and economic value acceptable to Canada. If this process is successful, Canada could enter into a formal agreement with the U.S. government for the interim aircraft and associated elements of in-service support as early as the end of 2017 or the beginning of 2018," the federal government said at the time.

The federal government has stopped talking directly to Boeing about the Super Hornet acquisition because of the Bombardier dispute. However, under the process known as a "foreign military sale," the Canadian government is officially a client of the American government in this ongoing acquisition.

"We understand the formal Congressional notification process has started. At this time we must defer to the US government on any official details, but we are encouraged by the U.S. government's support for this important capability in the defense of North America," Boeing said in a statement on Tuesday.
 
"Buying Super Hornet fighter jets would cost Canada more than $6B, U.S. government confirms"
by David Pugliese

September 12, 2017

Source:
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/buying-super-hornet-fighter-jets-would-cost-canada-more-than-6-billion-u-s-government-confirms

It will cost Canada more than $6 billion to buy 18 American-made Super Hornet fighter jets, the U.S. government announced Tuesday, even as a trade dispute that threatens the deal remains unresolved.

The Liberal government’s plans to buy the planes, intended as a stopgap measure until the purchase of a replacement fleet for Canada’s aging CF-18s, was derailed when the jet’s manufacturer, Boeing, filed a trade complaint against Bombardier over the Quebec company’s civilian passenger jets.

It is unclear whether the Super Hornet purchase will ever be completed, as Boeing has ignored Canadian government demands to drop the complaint that could see the Trump administration enforce tariffs on Bombardier aircraft being sold in the U.S.

On Tuesday, the U.S. State Department outlined for the first time the extent of the proposed deal and its cost to Canadian taxpayers.

he estimated price tag for the Super Hornet package is US $5.23 billion — or nearly $6.4 billion according to current exchange rates — according to a notice issued by the State Department. The notice of a potential sale is required by U.S. law and does not mean the sale has been concluded, the statement added.

That price goes well beyond the aircraft themselves, which are estimated to cost around US $77 million each; rather, it includes advanced targeting systems, spare parts, initial training and some maintenance, and almost 170 missiles.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will meet with British Prime Minister Theresa May next week to discuss the trade dispute with Boeing. May asked U.S. President Donald Trump last week to intervene in the situation, as the British government is concerned about the impact on jobs at Bombardier’s plant in Belfast, Northern Ireland.

In April, while on its way to wrapping up the Super Hornet deal, Boeing complained to the U.S. government that Bombardier was receiving government subsidies which allowed it to sell its C-Series civilian passenger aircraft at below-market prices. The U.S. Commerce Department and International Trade Commission then launched an investigation, which is ongoing.

That prompted the Liberals to start backing away from the Super Hornet deal, although federal officials acknowledged they were still talking with the U.S. government over acquiring fighter aircraft. “It is not the behaviour of a trusted partner,” Sajjan said of Boeing in a late May speech to defence industry executives unprecedented in its criticisms of the company.

Marc Allen, Boeing’s president of international business, said the company took its action to ensure a level playing field in the industry. He said Boeing believes that global trade only works if everyone plays by the same rules. That wasn’t the case for Bombardier, he argued. Boeing has also said the Super Hornet deal should not be connected to a commercial trade dispute.
 
In F-35 math that comes to $360 million a pop. Good thing they're trying to save face money.
 
Since this is the most active F-18 thread, I am posting this here. It is an aerial display in Switzerland and shows maneuvering performance I haven't seen in previous F-18 displays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf5A13atLHQ
 
"Boeing seeks quick legal fix to stop Bombardier"
by Dominic Gates

Originally published September 21, 2017 at 8:37 pm Updated September 21, 2017 at 10:22 pm

Source:
 
fredymac said:
aerial display in Switzerland and shows maneuvering performance I haven't seen in previous F-18 displays.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf5A13atLHQ

Might have to do with the Swiss´ Classic Hornets (late 90´s production) having a max. G-rating of 9+ instead of the earlier US Navy´s 7.5+ limit and having no angle-of-attack limiter.


I´m not 100% sure but I think the Finnish Hornets have the same capability.
 
Yup, IIRC they even have certain parts made out of titanium rather than aluminium to enable that rating. Part of the impressive visuals in that video is also that you have a varied background to judge the speed of its motions against.

I've seen them do some of that stuff at Axalp, and it ranks among my favourite aviation memories :)
 
Dreamfighter said:
fredymac said:
aerial display in Switzerland and shows maneuvering performance I haven't seen in previous F-18 displays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf5A13atLHQ

Might have to do with the Swiss´ Classic Hornets (late 90´s production) having a max. G-rating of 9+ instead of the earlier US Navy´s 7.5+ limit and having no angle-of-attack limiter.

This was one of the best displays I've ever seen and it's very impressive to see a Classic pulling some of those moves without benefit of TVC.
 
Trident said:
Yup, IIRC they even have certain parts made out of titanium rather than aluminium to enable that rating.

Is that Swiss-specific or C/D in general?
 
Swiss-specific, although as Dreamfighter mentioned, it might apply to Finland's fleet too.
 
I wonder if 'no buying Boeing aircraft' would include the Australian legacy Hornets being considered. Would paying Boeing to SLEP more of their CF-18s be out of the picture as well? If so that'd either mean a wind-down of the RCAF for the next ~4 years, or the 'interim' acquisition of either the F-35 or a European fighter, wouldn't it?
 
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Can't get much more interim than that.
 
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a18211702/fa-18-super-hornet-longer-legs-fuel-tanks-range/

America's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fleet, the backbone of the Navy’s fighter force, is getting new fuel tanks, as you can see in the Boeing artist's depiction above. The tanks are designed to allow the plane to fly and fight farther than ever before. It's a move that is in large part driven by a desire to stop Chinese long-range missiles that could target aircraft carriers, destroying them before they can threaten American flat-tops.

Sure I guess but why not a longer ranged - submarine or ship launched - IRBM with a BGV?
 
bobbymike said:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a18211702/fa-18-super-hornet-longer-legs-fuel-tanks-range/

b]It's a move that is in large part driven by a desire to stop Chinese long-range missiles that could target aircraft carriers, destroying them before they can threaten American flat-tops[/b].

It's motivated by the fact that a quarter of all Super Hornet sorties are going to be buddy tanking well into the 2030s.

The sum total of A2/AD-useful standoff strike weaponry carried by the Super Hornet in 2023 will be 90 LRASM.
So the claim in the article (amongst others) of some substantial Navy investment in standoff strike weaponry
has not been reflected in any actual budgets.
 
bobbymike said:
http://aviationweek.com/defense/boeing-touts-advanced-fighter-versions-different-animals

I took some time to read the comments below that article and found them to be, well, shall we say interesting and leave it at that. Wow, they should have gone to confused.com
 
Foo Fighter said:
bobbymike said:
http://aviationweek.com/defense/boeing-touts-advanced-fighter-versions-different-animals

I took some time to read the comments below that article and found them to be, well, shall we say interesting and leave it at that. Wow, they should have gone to confused.com

AvWeek really took a dive when they started allowing comments. In general they contain as much dumbth as you'd see on YouTube.
 
sferrin said:
AvWeek really took a dive when they started allowing comments. In general they contain as much dumbth as you'd see on YouTube.

I trace it back to Dornheim's tragic death.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkyz28qJc2w&feature=em-subs_digest

Block III upgrades

http://www.janes.com/article/78258/us-navy-launches-super-hornet-slep?utm_campaign=CL_Jane%27s%20360-Mar-2-2017_PC5308_e-production_E-7187_KP_0302_0735&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua
 
SLEP <> Block3 upgrades, it's just as it says (ie adding new airframe hours at $17+_ Mil per plane).

The Block 3 upgrades are an incremental set up pre-existing plans (IRST, etc) combined with items from ASH (CFTs, etc) that will take a decade to finish testing before all of the items are complete.
 
https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2018/03/01/giving_the_super_hornet_more_punch_think_sm-6_113137.html

With four capacity weapons stations available on the Super Hornet, the SM-6 Dual I SAM could be modified to serve as a long-range air to air missile,
 
bobbymike said:
https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2018/03/01/giving_the_super_hornet_more_punch_think_sm-6_113137.html

With four capacity weapons stations available on the Super Hornet, the SM-6 Dual I SAM could be modified to serve as a long-range air to air missile,

Both NCADE and Air-launched PAC-3 (MSE) were good ideas that the Navy desperately needs.
But I don't think you can get away from enclosed weapon pods for SAMs since they are not
designed to tolerate the temperature extremes to which air-to-air missiles are subjected.
 
Buy the friggin Meteor already. Or the air-launched Stunner. Or look at AARGM-ER...
 
http://aviationweek.com/defense/boeing-s-next-gen-super-hornet-will-be-sort-stealthy

President Donald Trump was ridiculed on Twitter after pronouncing during a visit to Boeing’s St. Louis facility that the company’s new F/A-18 Super Hornet will be equipped with the “latest and the greatest stealth, and a lot of things on that plane that people don’t even know about.”

But it turns out Trump was on to something. Boeing is about to kick off an exhaustive effort to transition the U.S. Navy’s carrier air wing to the “Block III” Super Hornet, a next-generation version of the strike fighter complete with new sensors, extended range, a more powerful computer and, yes, enhanced stealth coating.

These changes will allow the Super Hornet to fly alongside the Lockheed Martin F-35C carrier variant as the backbone of the Navy’s carrier air wing into the 2040s and beyond, says Dan Gillian, Boeing F/A-18 and EA-18 program manager.

Block III Super Hornet will get enhanced stealth coating

New aircraft will begin rolling off the production line in 2020

Trump previewed the new and improved fighter during a March 14 visit to the St. Louis facility, which has been building F/A-18s, first the A-D Hornet and later the E/F Super Hornet, since 1978.

Gillian confirms that an improved low-observable (LO) coating will be one of five key characteristics of the Block III Super Hornet. The fighter is already “a very stealth airplane today”—he says, declining to elaborate—but there are new coatings engineers can apply on different surfaces of the aircraft to make it even more survivable, he says.
 
https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/navy-league/2018/04/04/boeing-super-hornet-program-gets-second-life-through-future-sales-and-upgrades/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Defense%20DNR%2004-04-18&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Daily%20News%20Roundup

WASHINGTON — Boeing is expecting an important delivery this week: the arrival of the first Super Hornet slated to undergo a service life extension at the company’s production line in St. Louis, Missouri.

The work will kick off a decade long “service life modification” effort that will increase the lifespan of the U.S. Navy’s F/A-18E/F aircraft from 6,000 to 9,000 flight hours, but also transform them into the newest Block III configuration, said Dan Gillian, Boeing’s program manager for the Super Hornet and Growler.

The SLM effort, coupled with future Super Hornet procurement spelled out in the fiscal 2019 budget, has given the F/A-18E/F program a second life. Earlier this decade, it was thought that Super Hornet production could end as early as 2016 or 2017.

Now the situation has changed entirely.
 
On the subject of Block III upgrades.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/21045/here-is-boeings-master-plan-for-the-f-a-18e-f-super-hornets-future
 
"The Navy did include $15 million for research and development into a Super Hornet engine upgrade in its unfunded priorities list for the 2019 fiscal year. However, this is a wishlist the service sends annually to Congress in the hopes lawmakers will allocate additional funds for various projects."

Wasn't this complete decades ago?
 
This was recently (28-AUG-2018) posted at The Aviationist by David Cenciotti. It's the VX-23 patch ("Super Blues Transition - 2016-17 - VX-23") commemorating the testing and modifications surrounding the Blue Angels' transition from the F/A-18A-D to the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, that was on sale (since concluded) at eBay.

https://theaviationist.com/2018/08/28/vx-23-air-test-evaluation-super-blues-transition-patch-emerges-on-ebay/
Super-Blues-Transition-top-new.jpg


The dates are a bit off on the patch, but that is explained by Cenciotti ("Curiously, the '2016-2017' text suggests the VX-23 activities were completed last year even though the testing is currently underway: after investigating this a little, we have found out that the squadron ordered the patches back in 2017, before the testing was postponed to this year."). I get the use of the Rhino (given the aircraft's nickname), the VX-23 Strike Test red lightning bolt backdrop, as well as the angle of attack lines, alpha and beta symbols, etc., representing flight test. What is a bit of riddle to me is the Rhino is riding a common 20 lb. propane tank (which is leaking gas) that is appropriately illustrated wearing the Blue Angels shield, and rolling.

What does the propane tank represent? A play on the Super Hornet's typical high drag configuration (although that wouldn't be the case as operated by the Blues)? Why is the tank leaking gas? Some might say that represents the aircrafts' smoke systems, but smoke oil wouldn't seem to relate to propane gas.

Any thoughts on the patch-ology regarding the humor and representations on the patch? :D
 
The Blues go green (ethanol/green gas - biofuels)? (you can see that the rhyno is snorting flames and looks like drunk (stars and interrogative sign)...
 
Boxman said:
What does the propane tank represent?

"Blue Rhino" is a very common brand of propane tank in the US, and their logo includes a rhinoceros with a flame for a horn.

https://www.bluerhino.com/
 

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