How can F/A-XX be a twin engined F-35 when lockheed martin was knocked out of the competition already?
It’s not. As @quellish said he was referring to F-35 in multiple ways: the super F-35 is the TR3/Block 4 and the F-55 is a super F-35 in the sense that it’s a superior aircraft (has two engines!). LM is not in the running for F/A-XX as you know, ergo F-55 will be made by Boeing or NG.
 
Amazing thank you @F119Doctor - your notional “modified” F119 might be good for an “F-22 Super” or even F/A-XX if “modified” might bring enhanced efficiency, thrust and/or power & cooling….

Then of course when 102/103 is ready you integrate that powerplant in any of F-22 Super, F-47 or F/A-XX depending on money and need.
If you are wanting the F-47 to be flying in 3 years, I would envision a “modified F119” to be a bone stock F119, possibly with a new augmentor / nozzle to match whatever the aft end concept is for the F-47. And a revised FADEC design to communicate on whatever flight control buss the F-47 will use instead of the 1553 bus used on the F-22.
 
Let us all please agree to ignore any statements from the chief executive concerning aircraft programs.they are almost certainly not actual policy, and even if they were, said policy could reverse tomorrow morning. There is no need to even speculate on such things.
 
Will the F-47 designation continue on through the envisioned re-bidding processes or how often are they planning to introduce a new designation?
 
It is still likely 5 years before flight ready XA102 / XA103 are available. Unless the USAF has been funding long lead hardware based on PDR hardware design, it is usually 12-18 months for rotating disk forgings to be available, then machining time to the DDR drawings, engine assembly for ground test engines (including heavily instrumented test engines for stress verification), redesign with hardware procurement & manufacture for things that don’t go right from the DDR design, then Initial Flight Release (IFR) to begin flight test, Initial Service Release to continue flight test, and finally Production Representative engines at the end of EMD before series production. Some of these steps can be run somewhat in parallel, but engine development is hard.

Based on the size engine described for the F-47 with the XA102 / 103 being smaller than the F-35 sized XA100 / 101, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the first F-47 flying with modified F119 engines. They just need to ensure that the F-14 “interim TF30” scenario doesn’t repeat…
Are they even still building F119s? Looks like they delivered the last one over a decade ago.

 
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The witless fool doesn't understand what he's talking about and no doubt made a complete hash of his speech (No doubt much chagrin of whoever prepared it), there's no doubt a LOT of facepalming going on out of sight, just another example of DEI (Donald's Extreme Ignorance).
Hardly worse than the Secretary of the United States Air Force not knowing that the X-35 shouldn't be the F-35.
 
Hardly worse than the Secretary of the United States Air Force not knowing that the X-35 shouldn't be the F-35.

On the sliding scale of what gets the USAF a working force, ignoring nomenclature practices is probably pretty irrelevant.

Not understanding how aircraft development works is more concerning.
 
On the sliding scale of what gets the USAF a working force, ignoring nomenclature practices is probably pretty irrelevant.

Not understanding how aircraft development works is more concerning.
How much do you think Biden knew?
 
How much do you think Biden knew?
He knew enough to simply read from a script on things he didn't have a clue on. No president knows enough of every aspect of how different industries, technologies, and geopolitics intertwine.
But that's where you expect them to have the basic decency and wisdom to defer to the experts on things that are outside of their understanding. Being shallow enough to think one understands everything all at once is not at all a character flaw only to trump as far as presidents go, but trump certainly leads the pack by a mile.
 
If you are wanting the F-47 to be flying in 3 years, I would envision a “modified F119” to be a bone stock F119, possibly with a new augmentor / nozzle to match whatever the aft end concept is for the F-47. And a revised FADEC design to communicate on whatever flight control buss the F-47 will use instead of the 1553 bus used on the F-22.
The question is whether the F119 would be a good fit size wise to replicate the XA102/103. Will those engines be closer in size to a F100/110 than a F119? They will want an engine that is essentially exactly the same size or smaller to prevent unnecessary airframe changes..
 
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One has to ask how much wapor ware is F-47 , as if this was something concrete they would not even be talking new jets , aside from F-47
Its also more likely than not that supposedly flown demonstrators have demonstrated technologies but are not generic to F-47
 
Regarding the twin engined Super F-55 Lightning III, please remember that McDonnell Douglas doubled the number of engines to get the legendary Phantom...
Also, all those fighter projects make me guess if Roper has not got it at the end...
 
Don't shoot the messenger. Trump wants to build a F-55, a twin engined F-35 in addition to an 'F-22 Super'. Is it serious? Despite it all, he's the President of the United States, the most powerful and influential person in the world, and for that reason alone we NEED to take it seriously.



A few direct quotes from the president:

“We’re going to do an F-55, and I think — if we get the right price, we have to get the right price — that’ll be two engines and a super upgrade on the F-35,” he said at the event.

“Then we’re going to do the F-22. I think the most beautiful fighter jet in the world is the F-22, but we’re going to do an F-22 Super, and it’ll be a very modern version of the F-22 fighter jet,” he added.

“I don’t like single engines. Even this man, he is the best in the world in engines,” Trump said, referring to Culp. “But on occasion, I know you won’t admit this, if an engine goes out, it’s nice to have two, three or four. That’s why, I like the 747, it’s got four. … They tell me the engine will never go out. Well, I think it goes out on occasion, pretty rarely.”

“You’re going to design an ugly plane for stealth reasons, and then six months later, they’re going to figure out this, and then you’re stuck with the plane,” he said.
You don't actually need any new aircraft to explain what Trump said, just to remember that he doesn't do well with technical detail and ad-libs shamelessly to (he thinks) cover it:-

Twin-engined improved F-35, forever to be called F-55 after yestereday:- it's just the F/A-XX, which is supplementing the F-35 for the Navy.

Super F-22:- it's just the F-47.
 
Alright let’s end this nonsense and back to the thread.

I admit I had issues making political comments but some of these are outrageous for this site. Let’s not be children cursing at the “bad man” [biden or trump].

That said there is legitimate speculation as to what he meant and anyone who has the least bit of understanding takes some things he says with a grain of salt but can also discern what he means, although not spoken like an aviation enthusiast might.

To me it’s kinda obvious he’s referring to F/A-XX and the F-47. Prove me wrong.
 
That said there is legitimate speculation as to what he meant and anyone who has the least bit of understanding takes some things he says with a grain of salt but can also discern what he means, although not spoken like an aviation enthusiast might.

To me it’s kinda obvious he’s referring to F/A-XX and the F-47. Prove me wrong.
Yeah probaly but you know those twin engine concepts looks quite nice. That aside him pointing at the twin engine F-35 (ala F/A-XX) makes me wonder about those remarks some days ago where they talked about our most beloved being on the way to cancel F/A-XX budget for the next few years
 
Alright let’s end this nonsense and back to the thread.

I admit I had issues making political comments but some of these are outrageous for this site. Let’s not be children cursing at the “bad man” [biden or trump].

That said there is legitimate speculation as to what he meant and anyone who has the least bit of understanding takes some things he says with a grain of salt but can also discern what he means, although not spoken like an aviation enthusiast might.

To me it’s kinda obvious he’s referring to F/A-XX and the F-47. Prove me wrong.
100 % Agree with you , we have F-47 now and surely a Lockheed F-55, Lockheed CEO is surely better than all of us when He speak about doing a Ferrari with the F-35 chassis, Skunk Works engineers are surely not sleeping, and Lockheed is prorietary of some classified contracts so stoping the sarcasm could be a good thing to do.
 
100 % Agree with you , we have F-47 now and surely a Lockheed F-55, Lockheed CEO is surely better than all of us when He speak about doing a Ferrari with the F-35 chassis, Skunk Works engineers are surely not sleeping, and Lockheed is prorietary of some classified contracts so stoping the sarcasm could be a good thing to do.

Are you suggesting F-55 is a program separate from F/A-XX and F-47/NGAD? I believe F-55 refers to F/A-XX. Boeing and NG, but NOT Lockheed, are the remaining primes for that program. I believe Lockheeds comments on their earnings call about a deeply upgraded F-35 incorporating technology and systems designed for F-47 such as VCE was a public argument for killing F-47 for more, better F-35s. Not a new, separate program.
 
Are you suggesting F-55 is a program separate from F/A-XX and F-47/NGAD? I believe F-55 refers to F/A-XX. Boeing and NG, but NOT Lockheed, are the remaining primes for that program. I believe Lockheeds comments on their earnings call about a deeply upgraded F-35 incorporating technology and systems designed for F-47 such as VCE was a public argument for killing F-47 for more, better F-35s. Not a new, separate program.
I mean for saving money stuff could have been reused from F-35 which may brought lockheed back into the development as a side member
 
I would be surprised if the F-55 is a seperate program from the F/A-XX and F-47, but I am like you Training_Dummy I too believe that the F-55 designation is for F/A-XX and not as some believe a twin engined F-35 even if it does exist.
 
I would be surprised if the F-55 is a seperate program from the F/A-XX and F-47, but I am like you Training_Dummy I too believe that the F-55 designation is for F/A-XX and not as some believe a twin engined F-35 even if it does exist.
Maybe F/A-XX is more similiar to F-35 than i tought. Now a twin F-135 fighter does seems unlikely but maybe the explained it like that. Cutting cost by reusing a lot of F-35 hardware (Radar, EW suite, EOTS or DAS from Block 4 for example). I know what ever agent orange says often is quite from the reality but maybe its just his last brain cells (or whats left from them) trying to make it understandable for him.
 
The question is whether the F119 would be a good fit size wise to replicate the XA102/103. Will those engines be closer in size to a F100/110 than a F119? They will want an engine that is essentially exactly the same size or smaller to prevent unnecessary airframe changes..

Good point. Though I would expect a three stream engine to be much wider in diameter than the F119 that was intentionally made with a low bypass.
 
If you are wanting the F-47 to be flying in 3 years, I would envision a “modified F119” to be a bone stock F119, possibly with a new augmentor / nozzle to match whatever the aft end concept is for the F-47. And a revised FADEC design to communicate on whatever flight control buss the F-47 will use instead of the 1553 bus used on the F-22.
Are you surprised at the apparent not great increase in thrust of the NGAP engines?
 
Are you surprised at the apparent not great increase in thrust of the NGAP engines?

Is there a thrust figure released? Also the F-119 is like the heavyweight champion of the world in terms of thrust and exhaust velocity. I expect an adaptive engine to focus on fuel efficiency, not maximum thrust.
 
Is there a thrust figure released?
“General Electric has previously said that its earlier XA100 design is some 25 percent more efficient than the F135 and can also offer between 10 and 20 percent more thrust than the Pratt & Whitney engine in certain flight profiles. You can read more about the XA100 and adaptive cycle technologies here.“


On AvWeek Check 6 podcast, iirc Trimble said he didn’t expect massive thrust like 45K pounds or more because that would require large fan width.

 
“General Electric has previously said that its earlier XA100 design is some 25 percent more efficient than the F135 and can also offer between 10 and 20 percent more thrust than the Pratt & Whitney engine in certain flight profiles. You can read more about the XA100 and adaptive cycle technologies here.“


Well ok, that’s nice, but that was the cancelled F135 replacement, not the NGAD engine, right?
 
I'm not well versed in terms of engine tech but what are the reasons for not going with higher thrust engines? Even two of the AETP engines for the F-35 would get you a combined 80k lbs of thrust which would be nice kinematically especially if we are looking at a slightly larger fighter right?

Also how wouldn't more powerful engines imply better power generation?
 
I'm not well versed in terms of engine tech but what are the reasons for not going with higher thrust engines? Even two of the AETP engines for the F-35 would get you a combined 80k lbs of thrust which would be nice kinematically especially if we are looking at a slightly larger fighter right?

Also how wouldn't more powerful engines imply better power generation?
Hopefully F119Doctor will respond but the big requirement seems to be greatly increased range.
 
Alright let’s end this nonsense and back to the thread.

I admit I had issues making political comments but some of these are outrageous for this site. Let’s not be children cursing at the “bad man” [biden or trump].

That said there is legitimate speculation as to what he meant and anyone who has the least bit of understanding takes some things he says with a grain of salt but can also discern what he means, although not spoken like an aviation enthusiast might.

To me it’s kinda obvious he’s referring to F/A-XX and the F-47. Prove me wrong.
The super f-22 probably refers to both the modernized f-22 and the f-47. They exist as 1 thing in his memory in the moment of this speech probably. It's important to recognize trump's well known lack of focus during technical and intelligence briefings (not political hit piece, straight out the mouths of those in his 1st admin including the CIA head) if we are to try to discern any golden nugget of truth in what he says.

The comparison to the f-35's one engine was probably voiced to him by a legacy section of the navy who truly resented how the clinton admin forced all 3 branches to combine their fighter effort into the f-35. The navy over the years had publicly voiced support for the f-35 but behind closed doors they might not be (at least a certain faction of the navy)
 

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