Mickey Mouse? Even he had a watch. Simpler, robust, less complex. What else would you suggest? Wasn't intercepting Fokker DR.1s, it was Badgers.
It's pretty much covered in Battle Flight.

Chris
 
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Missile only did three manoeuvres, Roll Right. Roll Left and Pitch Up.
No pitch down? Also were the control-fin servos bang-bang or proportional?

Do you have any links to the technical details if they're online or any technical documentation?

I understand the controls where proportional up until the terminal phase. Upon the final approach to the target the mode switched to using full control deflection. A Doppler distance measurement was incorporated to accurately measure when the switch over was commanded.

The ramjet locations were found to be pitch sensitive due to ingestion of dirty air being shed off the missile forebody, so the pitching rate was limited during cruise. However early testing showed this resulted in sizeable/unacceptable miss distances. Hence the enhanced (aggressive) terminal control deflection was introduced because at that point, keeping the ramjets happy was a secondary consideration compared to smashing into the target. By all accounts it worked very well.
Bloodhound flew like an aircraft, bank and then pitch up (though it did both at the same time). The Pitch channel was rate limited to keep the movement within the G Limits of the airframe and the incidence limits of the Ramjet air intakes, but the roll channel had either fine movement for minor manoeuvres or maximum roll rate if the pitch demand exceed the roll demand by a certain amount.

This Pitch / Roll demand comparator was fitted in early 1957 after early homing XTV5 and XRD1's were getting miss distances measured in hundreds of feet. After the incorporation of the system, the XRD 1 Missile started to get miss distances measured in feet and started getting direct hits to boot. It actually screwed up EMI's work on the proximity fuze as they then had to fit a short range receiver system into the GW2 Fuze as the original design couldn't deal with close misses.

The Mark 1 had no control laws that varied with target range as far as I'm aware (And I have the Missile AP).

Mark 2 did have control laws built in due to the trajectory control system. The Climb laws of 15 and 40 degrees were only the initial climb to 10,000 feet. After that the missile nose started to drop slowly until it leveled out at the Cruise Altitude (40,000 or 55,000 feet). In the case of the 15 degree initial climb, the missile would level out and cruise at 55,000 if it did not get the terminal homing command before getting that high.

G limits were 7.5g (Terminal Homing), 3g (first 10 seconds after Wing unlock if trajectory control active). 1.5g Climb / Cruise when trajectory control active.

Terminal Homing was automatically commanded by the Computer in the LCP and passed to the missile via a command link embedded as a AM modulated signal on a FM modulated 600KHz carrier on the In Flight Refence signal sent to the back of the missile. The primary role of the IFR signal to allow the missile to cancel out its own Doppler shift on the target echo signal, plus ensure that the signal it locked on to after launch was its target and not some other Bloodhound section's target.

The Pitch and roll G Limits were switched out 15 seconds after Terminal Homing command was received. The actual range limits for a target at 30,000 feet were Traj A (No Climb Cruise) 15NM. Traj B (15 degree initial climb to 55,000 feet) 40NM. Traj C (40 degree initial climb to 40,000 feet cruise altitude) 60NM. Traj D (40 degree initial climb to 55,000 feet cruise altitude) 85NM. However those range figures were dependant on temperature and wind direction. Figures for both (wind speed and air temperature at ground level and at 50,000 feet) had to be put into the LCP computer.

Bloodhound Mark 1 did have major issues with ramjet rich extinction due to incidence issues. The Boundary layer issues were more of a problem for the auxiliary air intakes that feed air to the turbopumps that supplied fuel and hydraulics supplies and pressurized the fuel tanks. (Both marks of production missile had vortex generators fitted to the main body in front of the air intakes to deal with the issue, though the Mk 1 had a total redesign of the Aux Air Intakes between XRD1 and XRD 2, and the even deeper boundary layer on the Mk 2 resulted in the air intake for the fuel tank pressurization being installed within the main auxiliary intake). The Mark 2 overcame the Incidence issues with a moving cone on the tip of the Radome. If the missile had an incidence of more than 4 degrees to the airflow around it, the switch activated and reduced the fuel flow into the engines (until the missile was pointing the right way). During high altitude cruise if the missile manoeuvred too much, operation of the incidence switch all of the time would result in the missile losing a lot of thrust and therefore speed to a point that it would cause major issues. That was the primary reason for the G limit (it is mentioned in one of the files at Kew somewhere).
 
Not read Battle Flight or BSP4 then? You really should. And Fire Across the Desert.

Chris
I'm not familiar with these books.
 
Battle Flight

Has its own thread on this very forum, like all my books. Well, aside from the Key ones for some reason, but they're not secret projects jobs.

Chris
£397.99 on amazon, guess that will have to be for another day.
 
Battle Flight

Has its own thread on this very forum, like all my books. Well, aside from the Key ones for some reason, but they're not secret projects jobs.

Chris
£397.99 on amazon, guess that will have to be for another day.
I'd ask Chris if he has one in stock, it'd be way cheaper than that and that's including postage too. That's how I got my copy ---
 
I looked up "Battle Flight" on Amazon and I think I've got a copy lying somewhere around in my house.
 
Hello all. I don’t know for sure, but maybe the car behind Green Mace is one of the variants for a mobile Bloodhound. Does anyone know something about that? I see that Centurion chassis was used there
Bit of perspective bother there.
It's a Thunderbird parked alongside a Centurion which are parked alongside the Green Mace. Not sure what's beyond that.

This photo must have been taken at Duxford many years ago. Interesting picture all the same. Thanks for posting it.

Chris
 
Hello all. I don’t know for sure, but maybe the car behind Green Mace is one of the variants for a mobile Bloodhound. Does anyone know something about that? I see that Centurion chassis was used there
Bit of perspective bother there.
It's a Thunderbird parked alongside a Centurion which are parked alongside the Green Mace. Not sure what's beyond that.

This photo must have been taken at Duxford many years ago. Interesting picture all the same. Thanks for posting it.

Chris
Hmm... Maybe you are right. I have another picture. There is British artillery on Centurion chassis, but also we have strange machine with rocket on the left. What it could be?
 

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Bloodhound Mk. II This has been pretty much the standard for the British going well back as far as at least 1900 for most, if not all, military equipment.
 
I recall reading that post war aircraft types designations were revised to read in numerical format, eg, Spitfire Mk.XXI becoming Mk.21 etc. (I'll have a dig for a reference source for the subject)
 
I recall reading that post war aircraft types designations were revised to read in numerical format, eg, Spitfire Mk.XXI becoming Mk.21 etc. (I'll have a dig for a reference source for the subject)
That happened around late 1944 I think, Joe. Bloodhound, like many British Cold War projects from many names, depending who you dealt with.

MoS - Red Duster, Yellow Duster
MoA - QF.169, RO.166,
RAF - Bloodhound Mk.1, Bloodhound Mk.2
Bristol - Red Duster 3, 3A, 3B
Big Vern - Ramjet-powered Monoplane

Chris
 
It was whatever the person doing the typing could be arsed to put on the page I suspect.

For aircraft:
Pre-1947 it was Roman up to XIX (nineteen), then Arabic from 20 onwards
From 1947 Arabic from 1

I think equipment and weapon mark numbers changed at the same time too.

For consistency I'd say Mk.2 or go with whatever the bulk of the source material chooses.
 
I read that the Mk. IV version of the Bloodhound SAM was to be a mobile version. Anyone got any further details?
yes and i am actually looking for full schematics of the thing im making them in Blender in 3d, im putting together a collection of all the worlds bombs as of 2023 and i cannot get a good all around schematic to draw from in blender fo rneither the mk1 - 2 or 3 or anything bloodhound related. I can get a damn X9 an x120 down to the infrared lens diameter, i can get pretty close stuff on shit like a python 5 and even gbu's ( most of them exapt the big one) the schematics ive been able to get to make good realistic models are not acqurate enough for my taste, they are just like generalized single laye of a side view with minimal dimentsions. no curve directions, no angles. So like , if anyone got some good links to that kind of detailed schematics like that I would appreciate it a lot. I will send a 50 internet dollar bill ( a dollar mockup with my Spanish wife's eye winking at you :) To anyone that sends me some links. :p
 
Looks like a Cent, an Action X turret Cent and a Saladin.
 
Any idea how Bloodhound performed compared to SA-4 Ganef and Talos?
I don't know about the SA-4, but compared to Talos it was about as effective in terms of hitting a target, but only had about two-thirds the range at most (about 50 nm v. 75 nm). This was almost entirely due to the differences in guidance systems between the two.
Talos flies a ballistic trajectory to reach the target. This makes its flight as energy efficient as possible. Bloodhound flies a direct path riding the guidance beam (yes, it's semi-active homing, but in approach that makes it effectively a beam rider) which is less efficient.
The terminal guidance was different and this is what really limits the Bloodhound's range.
At the time (the 60's to 70's roughly) radar and sensor technology limited semi-active homing to around 50 nm at most simply due to the beam spreading as it went further from the transmitting station. Talos used a very complex and expensive lensed radar system along with the missile using an interferometer detection system that allowed good accuracy at very long ranges.

In terms of mission, I'd say Bloodhound is closer to BOMARC than Talos. Again, the USAF came up with an alternative for extremely long range intercepts with BOMARC. In that missile system ground tracking radar and flight control to the target area were handled by SAGE, again an incredibly expensive system that could fly the missile in autopilot to the target area. The missile was then fitted with its own active radar search and homing system that allowed it to find and intercept the target once close to it.

My off hand thoughts on the SA-4 is that it's less effective than the Western systems listed above, and that's based on the performance of Soviet era SAM's in actual use in combat.
Whilst on the subject of comparing Bloodhound and 2K11, and although a little off topic, I just stumbled across the following in terms of the 2K11:
"Its NATO reporting name is SA-4 Ganef, after the Yiddish word גנבֿ‎‎ meaning "thief"; the name was used because the system was a copy of the Bristol Bloodhound."

(Source: (Reference: "rocket and missile system | weapons system | Britannica" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K11_Krug)

Now granted, this is from Wikipedia, but is there any grounds for this claim that 2K11 was a copy of the Bloodhound, or was it one of those Cold War claims?

Regards
Pioneer
No, the SA 4 built off earlier Soviet ramjet technology. At the time--the 50's into the early 60's--ramjets were the only really reliable way to get a long-range missile to work. Solid fuel missiles were too short ranged, while liquid fueled ones were unreliable and dangerous by comparison. The down side to a ramjet is you're limited to about 5g in maneuverability, maybe less, due to issues with the intake design. Maneuver too hard and you lose stable airflow resulting in a flameout of the ramjet.
Modelling this was still rather primitive at the time as you can imagine. Yes, the engineers were using analog computer modelling along with wind tunnels but the process was still slow.

If you really want to see what a SA-4 can do, there's this site. They simulate most older SAM's pretty closely

 

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