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Blackburn designations

Stargazer2006

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Thanks Alexei! This solves quite a few mysteries in my Blackburn list. I don't have the Putnam book and it's a tough one to find!
 

AM

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hi,

The new version of Blackburn list with numbering in series "B" and "P" to number P.183
 

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hesham

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Hi,

B-114 jet flap Anson replacement 1960.
B-115 cold jet flap experimental aircraft 1960.
B-118 vertical rising transport aircraft 1960.
B-119 naval AEW aircraft 1960.
B-120 Anson replacement 1960.
B-121 Beverley/Argosy replacement 1960.
B-122 STOL freighter 1961.
P-139 AEW aircraft 1963.
P-143 Buccaneer fuel and stores pallet 1966.
P-146 light tactical aircraft 1967.
P-147 basic trainer 1967.
P-162 variable-cycle engine configurations 1979.
P-164 trainer 1980.
 

Stargazer2006

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You guys ROCK!!! :D

Only missing Blackburn designations I find now are as follows:

- B-125, P-137, P-144, P-166, P-172, P-174, P-175, P-176, P-179, P-180, P-182

Aircraft types/projects that do not have a B- designation identified for them:

- two-seat fighter project for F.34/35
- Y.A.2 project, no details
- Y.A.3 project, no details

- Y.A.7 project = B-54
- Y.A.8 project = B-54

- Percival P.40 PRENTICE subcontracted for 21/46/P
- Percival P.108 BALLIOL subcontracted for T.14/47/4

Any ideas? Thanks a lot for your great help! ;)
 

hesham

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Oh sorry,

I forget the B-125;

B-125 STOL freighter to NATO requirement NBMR.1 of 1961.
 

robunos

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From Putnam's 'Blackburn', page 50 :-

SBAC Designations...

Y.A.1 B-48 Firecrest prototype to Specification S.28/43 (1945)

Y.A.2, Y.A.3 Design studies only.

Y.A.4 B-55 project for a Rolls-Royce Dart powered 24-seat commercial aircraft.

Y.A.5 anti-submarine two-seater to specification G.R.17/45 with Napier Double Naiad (turboprop0

Y.A.6 B-62 project for Firecrest with Armstrong-Siddeley Python (1946)

Y.A.7 Y.A.5 two-seater with Rolls-Royce Griffon 56.

Y.A.8 Y.A.5 three seater with Rolls-Royce Griffon 56. (1950)

Y.A.9 B-75 feederliner with two Blackburn Cirrus Majors or Bombardiers (1947)

Y.B.1 B-88 - Y.A.8 with Armstrong-Siddeley Double Mamba (1950)

Y.B.2 HP.88 research aircraft using a Supermarine Attacker fuselage and Handley-Page Victor scale model crescent wing (1951)

Y.B.3 B-103 (otherwise the N.A.39) low-level strike fighter prototype (Buccaneer) (1955)

and from page 462:-

"Production

Three prototype aircraft only:

WB871 Blackburn B-54 Griffon 56, first flown 20 September 1949 as Y.A.7, scrapped at Farnborough 1957

WB788 Blackburn B-54 Griffon 56, first flown 3 May 1950 as Y.A.8, scrapped at Farnborough 1956

WB797 Blackburn B-88, Double Mamba, first flown 19 July 1950 as Y.B.1; to AS Motors in 1951, scrapped at Bitteswell july 1955"

So it would appear that the Y.A.7 and Y.A.8 retained the B-54 type number.

B-125, P-137, P-144, P-166, P-172, P-174, P-175, P-176, P-179, P-180, P-182
From 'From Spitfire to Eurofighter', Roy Boot, Airlife, 1990, pp.261-2

P.137, P.144, Project number unused.

Finally, from reading the Putnam book, I get the impression that when when building 'other peoples aeroplanes', where no design work has been done,
no 'B-number' was issued.


cheers,
Robin.


so I would hazard a guess that the Y.A.7 and Y.A.8 retained the B-54 number.
 

Stargazer2006

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robunos said:
so I would hazard a guess that the Y.A.7 and Y.A.8 retained the B-54 number.
That's EXACTLY how it was in my list until recently. In a streak of cautiousness I decided to question this and removed the B-54 allocation for these two... I shouldn't have. Thanks a lot!

As an aside... Wonder why I wrote "project, no details" in front of these two types. ??? I must have been tired from too much designation hunting!!! ::)
 

Schneiderman

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OK, so this thread has been dead for many years so I guess there is not a lot of interest in Blackburn, but a word of caution - the project list in Jackson's Putnam volume is far from complete and has errors.
I visited the Blackburn archive last week with a request to see any flying boat projects between the Nile and B20. The volunteers there did a quick search of the catalogue, not a deep search, and had a few files available for me to view. I only had two hours but in that time the files and drawings I saw were almost entirely previously unknown designs missing from Jackson's list. So, should you be researching Blackburn it looks like there is a great deal just waiting to be uncovered in the archive, a nice project for anyone who is able to make a few visits. The archive is held by BAe Systems at the former Blackburn factory at Brough, near Hull
 

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overscan

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Schneiderman said:
OK, so this thread has been dead for many years so I guess there is not a lot of interest in Blackburn, but a word of caution - the project list in Jackson's Putnam volume is far from complete and has errors.
I visited the Blackburn archive last week with a request to see any flying boat projects between the Nile and B20. The volunteers there did a quick search of the catalogue, not a deep search, and had a few files available for me to view. I only had two hours but in that time the files and drawings I saw were almost entirely previously unknown designs missing from Jackson's list. So, should you be researching Blackburn it looks like there is a great deal just waiting to be uncovered in the archive, a nice project for anyone who is able to make a few visits. The archive is held by BAe Systems at the former Blackburn factory at Brough, near Hull
Interesting info, thanks :)
 

hesham

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Thank you for clarify us my dear Schneiderman.
 

Schneiderman

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Blackburn project design numbers in the 1920s and early 1930s are refered to as Specification numbers. They appear in the headers to official documents but not on drawings and can have a number of sub-varients, hence C.B.1, C.B1A, C.B.1B and so on.
Where I have have seen only the drawings and not the documents the Specification number is uncertain although related designs will no doubt have the same Spec number. ?? below is probably a further sub-spec of C.B.1 and ??? of C.B.3. The titles are as seen on the GA drawings

C.B.1A - Three Engined 14-16 Passenger Flying Boat - 1926 (civil derivative of metal-hulled Iris with Bristol Jupiters)
?? - Three Engined 14 Passenger Flying Boat - 1927 (as above with Liberty engines)
??? - Three Engined Monoplane Flying Boat Commercial - 16 Passengers - 1928? (version of Nile with sponson stabilisers)
C.B.4 - 3 Engined (Leopard) All-Metal Biplane Civil Flying Boat (Iris type) - 1928? (Iris development with Nile style hull)
C.B.5 - 6-Engined Commercial Flying Boat "Oceanic" type - 1929 ( Rolls-Royce 'H' type = Buzzard)
 

Schneiderman

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There is also a specification for further developments of the Nile design

C.B.2.E - Three-Engined Monoplane Civil Flying-Boat with Alternative Land Machine Conversion

The landplane is titled Three-Engined (Jupiter IX) Commercial Landplane and is slightly different from the version Hesham posted here
The outer engines are slung under the wings, a feature to which the commercial department objected as it was different from that on the Nile and hence added cost
 

Schneiderman

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Some projects that appear to lack Specification numbers

Four-Engined Monoplane Merchant Flying Boat for Imperial Airways - Type "L4"

From the description this sounds like an enlarged Nile, or a smaller version of the "Oceanic". L4 appears to refer to the choice of four Leopard engines as an alternative was the "J4" with four Jupiters or Jaguars. Mention is also made of a "J3" with three Jupiters or Jaguars

Four-Engined Merchant Flying Boat - Junkers Jumo IV C.I. Engines - 1933

For Trans-atlantic routes, two alternative layouts, either four tractors or two tandem pairs. Both sesquiplanes but with different top wings. Design tested by the RAE. Hull design is featured in patent GB422982 with cantilevered balance floats on stub wings. Likely to have formed the basis for Blackburn's submission to spec R.2/33.
 

Schneiderman

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Finally a set of projects with retractable hulls or derived from them

B.B.3 - a twin-engined military high-speed flying boat design - 1935. The hull was subject to extensive tests in the water tank and wind tunnel at the RAE to ascertain the best configuration for the retractable hull to avoid spray over the tailplane and to minimise drag.
B.B.4 - un-named 32 seat civil flying boat with 4 x Aquila engines - 1935. Fixed hull
B.B.5 - Twin-Engined Amphibian Flying Boat - Type B.B.5 - 1936. Two Aquila engines. Two seat with both retractable hull and wheels, possibly tendered to spec. S.9/36. The description of this in Jackson's Putnam is completely wrong.

There is also an un-numbered retractable hull project tendered to spec. R.12/35
High Performance Flying Boat - 1935. 4 x Aquila. Appears to be a scaled-up derivative of the B.B.3. There are a number of alternative layouts; two different span of the wing, choice of sponsons or wing floats.
A civil version, with no specification number, was Four-Engined Merchant Flying Boat which is very similar to B.B.4

I assume that there must have been a B.B.1 and B.B.2. It is possible that one may be shown in patent GB433925 for the retractable hull system.
 
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