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Bell V-280 Valor

Sundog

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kitnut617 said:
Am I missing something --- the Bell V-22's advertised speed is 275 kts, what is all the fuss and all this effort for another 5 kts ----
My understanding, besides what TomcatVIP noted, is whereas the V-22 was just designed to meet Tilt Rotor requirements, the V-280 was designed to meet helo requirements, which require more agility while in the hover, per Army requirements, which also exceed the V-22's capabilities.
 

yasotay

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As mentioned the V-280 is looking to meet/exceed Level 1 rotorcraft maneuverability standards. The prop-rotors have considerably more flapping than found on the V-22.
 

TomcatViP

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As a matter of facts:

CEO: Textron Could Pull Funding From V-280 Without Further Army Investment

During an earning call the same day, Donnelly praised the program, but said its future is tightly coupled to the Army’s upcoming fiscal 2020 budget.

“It'll affect our pace a lot,” Donnelly said of the upcoming budget. “We have no insight into what the [PB-20] looks like at this stage of the game. … At this point, look, we'll have no choice but to roll back any funding that we put into it, waiting to see what the army is going to do, because we've done what we can do."
[...]
“We would certainly hope to hear shortly, to start to see that — those statements turn into some contracted work,” Donnelly said. “We've now exceeded 280 knots. I think our team has done everything we've asked of them to design and build a terrific aircraft. … So it's sort of debunked all these notions that a tiltrotor product can't have the maneuverability of a more conventional aircraft, the speed now going through and then breaking through that 280 knot performance envelope. This thing does everything and more than it was expected to do.”
Source:
Rotor&Wings.com
 

Triton

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Bell's Freeland on First Year of V-280 Valor Tiltrotor Testing, 2019 Program Goals

Published on Jan 7, 2019

Col. Rob Freeland, US Marine Corps Ret., Bell's government relations and business development director, discusses the first year of V-280 Valor tiltrotor flight testing, 2019 program goals and more with Defense & Aerospace Report Editor Vago Muradian. The V-280 is among the competitors to replace H-60 Blackhawk
https://youtu.be/LM4EGT_a0Xc
 

yasotay

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TomcatViP said:
As a matter of facts:

CEO: Textron Could Pull Funding From V-280 Without Further Army Investment

During an earning call the same day, Donnelly praised the program, but said its future is tightly coupled to the Army’s upcoming fiscal 2020 budget.

“It'll affect our pace a lot,” Donnelly said of the upcoming budget. “We have no insight into what the [PB-20] looks like at this stage of the game. … At this point, look, we'll have no choice but to roll back any funding that we put into it, waiting to see what the army is going to do, because we've done what we can do."
[...]
“We would certainly hope to hear shortly, to start to see that — those statements turn into some contracted work,” Donnelly said. “We've now exceeded 280 knots. I think our team has done everything we've asked of them to design and build a terrific aircraft. … So it's sort of debunked all these notions that a tiltrotor product can't have the maneuverability of a more conventional aircraft, the speed now going through and then breaking through that 280 knot performance envelope. This thing does everything and more than it was expected to do.”
Source:
Rotor&Wings.com
Nothing like finding out you may have spent over a hundred of million dollar on a school science project
 

TomcatViP

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After the Scorpion (surprising) lack of success, that would be an ungainly hard hit for Textron...
 

kitnut617

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Sundog said:
kitnut617 said:
Am I missing something --- the Bell V-22's advertised speed is 275 kts, what is all the fuss and all this effort for another 5 kts ----
My understanding, besides what TomcatVIP noted, is whereas the V-22 was just designed to meet Tilt Rotor requirements, the V-280 was designed to meet helo requirements, which require more agility while in the hover, per Army requirements, which also exceed the V-22's capabilities.
Thanks, but it seems to beat the object of having a tilt-rotor don't you think ???

I can't help but think that the V-280 is nothing more than a technology demonstrator, looking at the profile of the fuselage top before, over and behind the wing, it looks very similar to the V-22. The wing, nacelles, prop could be a straight transplant on to a V-22 I'm thinking ---
 

GeorgeA

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kitnut617 said:
I can't help but think that the V-280 is nothing more than a technology demonstrator,
That's exactly what it is, along with the SB-1. They are intended to demonstrate the high speed desired by the Army for the FVL Capability 3 requirements, along with the handling characteristics needed in an operational vehicle. There's been no attempt to integrate modern avionics, weapons, or self-protection systems. The objective engines are still in development, too.

There's been a lot of investment on the part of the contractors, so once the objectives of the demonstration have been met, there's little sense in investing more capital until the actual FVL-3 program gets under way.
 

AeroFranz

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JMR TD = Joint Multi Role Technology Demonstrator...
 

yasotay

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Bell has clearly, and often stated that the V-280 builds on their efforts with the V-22. The objective was to simplify the amount of effort needed to put a tilt rotor together, and thus with improved manufacturing techniques reduce cost per lbs on an aircraft. The agility is a requirement for a tactical rotorcraft that can maneuver at least as well as the UH-60 Blackhawk. It is a technology goal as no requirements documents have been released for an aircraft of this type.
 

Jeb

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yasotay said:
TomcatViP said:
As a matter of facts:

CEO: Textron Could Pull Funding From V-280 Without Further Army Investment

During an earning call the same day, Donnelly praised the program, but said its future is tightly coupled to the Army’s upcoming fiscal 2020 budget.

“It'll affect our pace a lot,” Donnelly said of the upcoming budget. “We have no insight into what the [PB-20] looks like at this stage of the game. … At this point, look, we'll have no choice but to roll back any funding that we put into it, waiting to see what the army is going to do, because we've done what we can do."
[...]
“We would certainly hope to hear shortly, to start to see that — those statements turn into some contracted work,” Donnelly said. “We've now exceeded 280 knots. I think our team has done everything we've asked of them to design and build a terrific aircraft. … So it's sort of debunked all these notions that a tiltrotor product can't have the maneuverability of a more conventional aircraft, the speed now going through and then breaking through that 280 knot performance envelope. This thing does everything and more than it was expected to do.”
Source:
Rotor&Wings.com
Nothing like finding out you may have spent over a hundred of million dollar on a school science project
Oh dear, this could turn into the biggest "We don't have money budgeted to pay you for your work but think of the exposure you'll get!" of all time.
 

sferrin

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Jeb said:
yasotay said:
TomcatViP said:
As a matter of facts:

CEO: Textron Could Pull Funding From V-280 Without Further Army Investment

During an earning call the same day, Donnelly praised the program, but said its future is tightly coupled to the Army’s upcoming fiscal 2020 budget.

“It'll affect our pace a lot,” Donnelly said of the upcoming budget. “We have no insight into what the [PB-20] looks like at this stage of the game. … At this point, look, we'll have no choice but to roll back any funding that we put into it, waiting to see what the army is going to do, because we've done what we can do."
[...]
“We would certainly hope to hear shortly, to start to see that — those statements turn into some contracted work,” Donnelly said. “We've now exceeded 280 knots. I think our team has done everything we've asked of them to design and build a terrific aircraft. … So it's sort of debunked all these notions that a tiltrotor product can't have the maneuverability of a more conventional aircraft, the speed now going through and then breaking through that 280 knot performance envelope. This thing does everything and more than it was expected to do.”
Source:
Rotor&Wings.com
Nothing like finding out you may have spent over a hundred of million dollar on a school science project
Oh dear, this could turn into the biggest "We don't have money budgeted to pay you for your work but think of the exposure you'll get!" of all time.
How do you figure? Bell didn't build the demonstrator out of the goodness of it's heart did it? Pretty sure the Army paid for it.
 

_Del_

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I don't have a figure, but the program efforts have been largely self-funded by both teams. Army spending has been relatively small.
 

sferrin

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_Del_ said:
I don't have a figure, but the program efforts have been largely self-funded by both teams. Army spending has been relatively small.
I guess I'm wondering what the problem is. It's not like both companies didn't know what they were getting into. Did they imagine that both companies would win a production order?
 

GeorgeA

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sferrin said:
_Del_ said:
I don't have a figure, but the program efforts have been largely self-funded by both teams. Army spending has been relatively small.
I guess I'm wondering what the problem is. It's not like both companies didn't know what they were getting into. Did they imagine that both companies would win a production order?
There isn't a problem. Textron is simply saying that without a funded program to move FVL-3 or whatever they'll call it forward, they're done for now. I would imagine Boeing and Sikorsky will say the same thing after SB-1 completes its demo phase.
 

sferrin

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George Allegrezza said:
sferrin said:
_Del_ said:
I don't have a figure, but the program efforts have been largely self-funded by both teams. Army spending has been relatively small.
I guess I'm wondering what the problem is. It's not like both companies didn't know what they were getting into. Did they imagine that both companies would win a production order?
There isn't a problem. Textron is simply saying that without a funded program to move FVL-3 or whatever they'll call it forward, they're done for now. I would imagine Boeing and Sikorsky will say the same thing after SB-1 completes its demo phase.
That's as would be expected I'd think. Weird that some people seem to think the DoD has an obligation to pony up dough for all these projects.
 

yasotay

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I have heard said that the Industry has invested in the neighborhood of five times the amount of funds into these JMR efforts as has the U.S. DoD.
 

Sentinel Chicken

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20191019_AFW_01.jpg

It was super cool to see the Valor come speeding in to air show center with an ATAC L-39 flying chase. I've seen plenty of V-22s in action but love the sleek looks of the Valor. I wish I was that photographer in the back seat of the chase!
 

yasotay

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To update some of what Sentinel Chicken wrote in the great article and pictures. Cap Set 1 - (Future Attack Reconnaissance Aircraft /FARA) is exclusively an Army Program for the OH-58D replacement. Cap Set 2 - is looking to be a USN effort aimed at a replacement for H-60s (expect endurance over speed). Cap Set 3 -(Future Long Range Air Assault/FLRAA [US Army] and Attack Utility Replacement Aircraft/AURA [USMC]) will replace H-60 and H-1 for those services. Cap Set 4 - a H-47 or V-22 replacement. Cap Set 5 - H-53K fits the bill at the low end. If it starts to look like an airplane it is likely USAF Inc. will step in and study it to its grave.

Cap Set 1 & 3 are as healthy as they can be under the now unending continuing resolutions. Cap Set 2 is still bumping around in the Navy decks at the Pentagon in the inevitable internal funding wars. USN is still quite happy with H-60. Cap Set 4 will happen when the Army decides H-47, and the Marines the V-22, are not meeting requirements. So not in my lifetime. Cap Set 5 if the H-53K does not meet your need, you will have to wait for the USAF to decide it needs to replace C-130.
 

Sentinel Chicken

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So if I understand things correctly, the proposed Bell 360 Invictus is for the FARA requirement and though the Valor and Defiant are for JMR-TD, at least Bell intends the Valor to be as close as possible to production standard?
 

NUSNA_Moebius

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The V-280 Valor gave its first public flying demonstration at the 2019 Fort Worth Alliance Air Show several weeks ago.

I wrote about it for The AvGeeks and it has the photos I took as well: https://theavgeeks.com/2019/10/20/the-first-public-demo-of-the-bell-v-280-valor-tilt-rotor/
I got to see it in real life! My father (who is a retired Bell employee) was dumbfounded to see it flying for the public already, but getting it into taxpayers minds will benefit it's prospects.
 

yasotay

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So if I understand things correctly, the proposed Bell 360 Invictus is for the FARA requirement and though the Valor and Defiant are for JMR-TD, at least Bell intends the Valor to be as close as possible to production standard?
Both Bell and the Sikorsky(Lockheed) Boeing Team have indicated that their JMR-TD aircraft are representative of their FLRAA offerings if the final requirements are not significantly changed. The Bell 360 has been developed to the requirements specified by the US Army in their request for proposals.
 
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