BAe P.164

Two more P.164 designs.


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First one's a Hawk isn't it?

Second one is a Tucano or Pilateaus PC7/9?
JohnR said:
First one's a Hawk isn't it?

Second one is a Tucano or Pilateaus PC7/9?

No, they are original designs. BAe dropped their own designs to promote the Pilatus PC9 but lost to the Shorts Tucano.

here is the BAC or BAe P.164 Model Project,Air International 5/1982.


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From Air International 10/1990,

here is anther Model to BAe P.164,please note it has a different cockpit ?.


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Info from British Aerospace brochure.
Info from British Aerospace brochure.
I have just come across this brochure from my late father. who worked at Brough Future Projects on this project, he didn't really talk about it, I wondered if any one knows details like how come it was proposed to have a Pratt& Withey engine etc.?
From Jet Provost,the Little Plane with the Big History.


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RAP: why Pratt in a BAe scheme?

Shorts (then owned by HMG, =us) won RAF trainer 21/3/85, which helped (us) to unload Shorts onto Bombardier, 4/10/89. The losing BAe Bid, P.164, was first schemed in 1983 while Deputy Chairman was still Allen Greenwood, ex-Chairman, BAC. He had been hurt professionally when RR was 20% owner of BAC by their evident disinterest in BAC211 (rejected for Govt. support, 15/12/67) or BAC311 (ditto, 2/12/70). RR was perceived as "worshipping at the US shrine", trying to place Big Fans on US wide-bodies.

At BAe Mr Greenwood facilitated Launch of BAe 146 (Lycoming), Jetstream 31 (Garrett), ATP (Pratt Canada). JT15D in 1983 was becoming bizjet benchmark. Not until 11/89, forming Williams-Rolls Inc for FJ44, did RR take any interest in a high volume/rubbish Unit price market.

(Losing P.164 was actually a relief: alYamamah (to be 1) took forever to negotiate, against savage competition, and included retail supply of lots of things BAe knew little about, inc. small trainers. RSaudi AF was disposed towards PC-9 (very aware of the benefits of spreading their business and seeing a Swiss type as having political advantage). When signed, 9/85 BAe's Tornado programme included supply of 30 PC-9s: it would have been confusing still to be in P.164).
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