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Hey, hey ... we didn't make fun of cricket, now did we! Wailing at perfidy is our national sport
Avro Canada C-102 Jetliner
- Thread starter Apophenia
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Hey, hey ... we didn't make fun of cricket, now did we! Wailing at perfidy is our national sport
jrlucariny
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The following may be of some interest.
The Jetliner first flew in August 1949, just thirteen days after the maiden flight of the Comet. These test flights made a splash in the United States. Avro Canada took the opportunity to launch an extensive advertising campaign. As well, the prototype made several demonstration flights in Canada and the United States in the spring of 1950. The enthusiasm generated by these North American premieres was almost unanimous. While some senior United States Air Force officers briefly considered the possibility of ordering several (20?) Jetliners, American and European airlines were more cautious. They wanted to see accurate technical data, something Avro Canada seemed to have overlooked. The aircraft manufacturer, meanwhile, continued to denounce the coldness of Trans-Canada Air Lines (TCA), which, rightly or wrongly, deemed the Jetliner unacceptable on its North American routes.
Avro Canada planned to send the Jetliner to the 1950 Farnborough Air Show, organized each September by the Society of British Aircraft Constructors, an organization headed at that time by Sir Roy Dobson, a senior manager at A.V. Roe and Company (Avro). Afterward, the Jetliner would travel to Australia where Trans-Australia Airlines (TAA) intended to use it for a series of experimental air cargo deliveries. The interest of this national air carrier actually dated back to the autumn of 1949. Discussions held at that time raised the possibility of manufacturing the Jetliner in the United Kingdom if the number of orders, signed by TAA and other (Australian? British??) airlines, justified it. Such a project would allow countries that did not wish to pay in dollars, or could not afford to, to obtain the new Canadian airliner.
At the end of June 1950, however, North Korea invaded South Korea. Tension quickly rose between the Soviet bloc and Western countries. As a result, rearmament programs picked up speed, including those of Canada and the United Kingdom. That was when a problem arose. Rightly or wrongly, according to Canada's Department of Reconstruction and Supply, Avro Canada did not have the resources to work on both the Jetliner and the Canuck. A choice had to be made, keeping in mind that TCA remained uninterested and that no formal Jetliner order had been signed by anybody.
Avro Canada was ordered to end its work on improved versions of the Jetliner. It also had to refuse any order. As a result, the American air carrier National Airlines had to withdraw its letter of intent for four Jetliners. In November 1951, fascinated by as it was by production contracts for its CF-100 all weather jet fighter, Avro Canada's board of directors ordered a halt to all work on the second Jetliner prototype, an apparently longer and more powerful aircraft. Ironically, the RCAF ordered two de Havilland Comet jet airliners that same month. The leader of the official opposition, George Alexander Drew, denounced this decision.
As sad as this abandonment was, one has to wonder if the British government would have allowed Avro, for example, to put aside factory space to build a foreign airliner it had not planned for, this at a time when the Vickers Viscount seemed very promising when flown on routes more or less similar to those the Jetliner had been designed for.
A final and potentially controversial thought. As experienced as the De Havilland engineering team which designed the Comet was, it was pretty well blindsided by the metal fatigue issue which caused fatal crashes in 1954. Might the Jetliner have found itself faced with the same issue?
The Jetliner first flew in August 1949, just thirteen days after the maiden flight of the Comet. These test flights made a splash in the United States. Avro Canada took the opportunity to launch an extensive advertising campaign. As well, the prototype made several demonstration flights in Canada and the United States in the spring of 1950. The enthusiasm generated by these North American premieres was almost unanimous. While some senior United States Air Force officers briefly considered the possibility of ordering several (20?) Jetliners, American and European airlines were more cautious. They wanted to see accurate technical data, something Avro Canada seemed to have overlooked. The aircraft manufacturer, meanwhile, continued to denounce the coldness of Trans-Canada Air Lines (TCA), which, rightly or wrongly, deemed the Jetliner unacceptable on its North American routes.
Avro Canada planned to send the Jetliner to the 1950 Farnborough Air Show, organized each September by the Society of British Aircraft Constructors, an organization headed at that time by Sir Roy Dobson, a senior manager at A.V. Roe and Company (Avro). Afterward, the Jetliner would travel to Australia where Trans-Australia Airlines (TAA) intended to use it for a series of experimental air cargo deliveries. The interest of this national air carrier actually dated back to the autumn of 1949. Discussions held at that time raised the possibility of manufacturing the Jetliner in the United Kingdom if the number of orders, signed by TAA and other (Australian? British??) airlines, justified it. Such a project would allow countries that did not wish to pay in dollars, or could not afford to, to obtain the new Canadian airliner.
At the end of June 1950, however, North Korea invaded South Korea. Tension quickly rose between the Soviet bloc and Western countries. As a result, rearmament programs picked up speed, including those of Canada and the United Kingdom. That was when a problem arose. Rightly or wrongly, according to Canada's Department of Reconstruction and Supply, Avro Canada did not have the resources to work on both the Jetliner and the Canuck. A choice had to be made, keeping in mind that TCA remained uninterested and that no formal Jetliner order had been signed by anybody.
Avro Canada was ordered to end its work on improved versions of the Jetliner. It also had to refuse any order. As a result, the American air carrier National Airlines had to withdraw its letter of intent for four Jetliners. In November 1951, fascinated by as it was by production contracts for its CF-100 all weather jet fighter, Avro Canada's board of directors ordered a halt to all work on the second Jetliner prototype, an apparently longer and more powerful aircraft. Ironically, the RCAF ordered two de Havilland Comet jet airliners that same month. The leader of the official opposition, George Alexander Drew, denounced this decision.
As sad as this abandonment was, one has to wonder if the British government would have allowed Avro, for example, to put aside factory space to build a foreign airliner it had not planned for, this at a time when the Vickers Viscount seemed very promising when flown on routes more or less similar to those the Jetliner had been designed for.
A final and potentially controversial thought. As experienced as the De Havilland engineering team which designed the Comet was, it was pretty well blindsided by the metal fatigue issue which caused fatal crashes in 1954. Might the Jetliner have found itself faced with the same issue?
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Quite possibly although the circular passenger windows would have helped. AFAIK, construction techniques for the C102 were fairly conventional ... in contrast to the new-to-them metal bonding techniques used on the Comet I.
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Speaking of the interest of the C102 Jetliner by the USAF, I heard on a video (sorry, I don't remember the title of the video) that Avro Canada looked at and preliminarily designed military applicable derivatives of the C102. Does anyone know of what role these variants were?
Regards
Pioneer
Regards
Pioneer
According to James Charles "Jim" Floyd's The Avro Canada C102 Jetliner (Erin, Ontario: Boston Mills Press, 1986), Avro Canada engineers looked at Jetliner versions designed for transport (cargo or soldiers / paratroopers), training (pilots and / or navigators), photo reconnaissance / mapping and high altitude medical research. The length of the fuselage of these aircraft might perhaps have varied depending on the purpose.
Going off on a tangent, at least at first glance, the fuselage diameter and wing chord at the root of the Avro Canada Jetliner and Avro Tudor propeller airliner appear to be quite similar.
Going off on a tangent, at least at first glance, the fuselage diameter and wing chord at the root of the Avro Canada Jetliner and Avro Tudor propeller airliner appear to be quite similar.
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A complement of info re. my previous email.
Training versions of the Jetliner were offered for radar operators, radio operators and bomb aimers. There was also an engine development version of the aircraft, presumably available for both military and civilian use.
Several American engines were proposed for the various military versions of the Jetliner.
Training versions of the Jetliner were offered for radar operators, radio operators and bomb aimers. There was also an engine development version of the aircraft, presumably available for both military and civilian use.
Several American engines were proposed for the various military versions of the Jetliner.
In regards to the Jetliner and Comet type metal fatigue issues, one of the contributing factors with the Comet was the punching rather than drilling of rivet holes in some areas. Yes, by all means let's create localized stresses in a component of a pressurized shell.
One record that can't be taken away from the Avro Jetliner is that it delivered the very first jet airmail, in a trip from Toronto to New York on April 18, 1950. Here it is, streaking over Manhattan.
After development work ceased, it was used extensively on company business, enjoying a relatively trouble free and reliable working life until its final flight on Nov. 23, 1956, over seven years since it first took off. Its airworthiness certificate having expired, it was decided not to invest the additional cost to keep it flying and it ended up being dismantled, with only the nose still in existence.
After development work ceased, it was used extensively on company business, enjoying a relatively trouble free and reliable working life until its final flight on Nov. 23, 1956, over seven years since it first took off. Its airworthiness certificate having expired, it was decided not to invest the additional cost to keep it flying and it ended up being dismantled, with only the nose still in existence.
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The nose is now in the museum at Rockcliffe Airport, a suburb of Ottawa.
