AIM-152 AAAM Phoenix replacement projects

NMaude said:
As far as I know both teams got as far as ground tests of test articles (Including rocket-motors) before the programme was cancelled, I suspect that if the Cold War had lasted a year longer we'd have seen flight-tests of XAIM-152A prototypes.
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I'm pretty sure I've seen photos of the ramjet missiles on Tomcats in flight. Probably just fit/flow tests, not a drop test, though.
 
I think this is the picture you were looking for.

Apart from the advanced guidance tech demonstrated during the AIM-152 program, I would also assume that GDWs missile used much more advanced propellant when compared to AIM-7F/M/ and AIM-120A/B. And I think that propellant was CL-20 nitroamine. The timeline matches perfectly. CL-20 was developed during the 80s, and the GDW/HR were selected as competitors in 1987. The fuels used in contemporary Sparrows and AMRAAM wouldn't be energetic enough to achieve 100+ NM range.
 

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iwantmoresources said:
I think this is the picture you were looking for.
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That's the one:).

I think that if the Hughes/Raytheon/McD ACIMD missile had got to the flight-test stage then for the initial flight-tests (Autopilot only no radar-seeker) testing the boost-phase only I suspect they would've used surplus Mk-52 rocket-motors from AIM-7Es.
 
NMaude said:
This was a wasted research opportunity, using modified AIM-54s for hypersonic research would've saved money AND at the same time de-milling them to prevent them from being surreptitiously acquired by the Iranians.
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I recalled seeing a paper on this .... always thought it's objective was to arm the F-15 with the Pheonix .....

[edit] found it!

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20060004771/downloads/20060004771.pdf
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20070025193/downloads/20070025193.pdf
 
zjz said:
I recalled seeing a paper on this .... always thought it's objective was to arm the F-15 with the Pheonix .....

[edit] found it!

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20060004771/downloads/20060004771.pdf
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20070025193/downloads/20070025193.pdf
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I've got those PDFs downloaded somewhere on my computer. The thing is that there were IIRC ~5,000 AIM-54s when they were retired, just think of how many NASA/JPL supersonic/hypersonic research could've been done on these surplus LRAAMs.
 
Kat Tsun said:
You don't need a large warhead.

With modern infrared or radar seekers, you don't need a warhead period. It would probably be more lethal against large aircraft if it were hit to kill rather than a warhead, or some sort of SAPHE warhead that detonates inside the aircraft structure, but no warhead is probably preferable to a tiny one in practice. The GD AAAM is big enough to be a rather muscular metal rod that punches a fat hole in an airframe.

Planes generally dislike having big holes in them, you can probably carry as many or more of these little missiles as AIM-120, and there are only a few dozen functional Backfires left in the world.
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The aim-4 falcon has entered the chat (had a warhead but no poxy fuse so had to hit the target directly to explode, was not very effective because of that, I can't imagine how useless a missile with no warhead would be)
 
NMaude said:
This was a wasted research opportunity, using modified AIM-54s for hypersonic research would've saved money AND at the same time de-milling them to prevent them from being surreptitiously acquired by the Iranians.
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They can make their own AIM-54s so I don't see what that would accomplish. It's not a particularly useful missile for much of anything after the early 1990's. Incidentally, that's when Iran started their reverse engineering program in earnest.
 
Kat Tsun said:
They can make their own AIM-54s so I don't see what that would accomplish.
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The proposed use for those decommissioned AIM-54s was to remove the seeker electronics, proximity-fuse and warhead with the empty space used for test-instrumentation and/or experiments to take advantage of the high supersonic/low hypersonic speeds possible.

Check out these two NASA files:

New Air-Launched Small Missile (ALSM) Flight Testbed for Hypersonic Systems
New Air-Launched Small Missile (ALSM) Flight Testbed for Hypersonic Systems
 

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