Aeromarine Projects and Prototypes

[Dynoman]

Your welcome! I look forward to seeing the drawings and/or descriptions of them one day. BTW still looking for Aeromarine's SBG-1 glider and ADA Agricultural aircraft.

 

[Jos Heyman]

The Aeromarine connection is new to me.
The info I got is:
An image of the GL-1 accompanies "Small Glider Target for Anti-Aircraft Guns", Popular Science Aug 1923, pg 35. The GL-1 is shown on a similar above-wing mounting (but on a DH-4). McCook Field's GL-1 is described as "made of linen, wood, and a piece of metal, the fuselage's 2D tubular structure, has a twelve-foot wing spread." Setting horizontal tail and rudder determined flight path. Descent from 10,000 ft took about half an hour. The aircraft was serialled as 23-001 in a separate series of serials.
Other than being mid-winged, the GL-1 looks very much like the later G-3.
The use of gliders for target practice was suggested by was Curtiss in 1922 and over the next two years 13 such gliders were designed by J.A. Roche and built at the Engineering Division at McCook Field. It is not known if they were all of the same type and if they were designated in the GL series.

Does anyone know if it is correct to have the Engineering Division's GL-1 target glider listed as an Aeromarine type?

I have this machine listed under both manufacturers, and since Aeromarine built the Engineering Division's PG-1, it is possible that they also did other subcontracting work for them too... Thoughts?

 

[Dynoman]

Information for Aeromarine ADA, Aeromarine Dusting Aircraft (Koch, T., Skyways No. 58, April 2001, pg. 4-5):

Description:

Aeromarine Dusting Aircraft
One tractor Liberty engine; one place open cockpit; Biplane with upper and lower airfoils composed of Aeromarine No. 2a airfoils; None produced; Factory Drawing No. 18287; Drawing Date: 4-9-1924.

 

[hesham]

Nice Info Dynoman.

 

[cluttonfred]

And if anyone missed it, the "J.A. Roche" who designed the GL-1 target glider cited above is none other than Jean A. Roche, U.S. Army engineer at McCook Field airfield in Dayton, whose Roche Monoplane became the Aeronca C-2, which led to the C-3 and eventually fathered the whole line of Aeronca high-wing monoplanes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeronca_C-2

You can see more about the GL series of gunner gliders and see a photo of the GL-3 on display at the USAF Museum here: http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/MuseumExhibits/FactSheets/Display/tabid/509/Article/198049/g-3-target-glider.aspx There is no mention of an Aeromarine connection, but that doesn't mean that they didn't build them for the Army. From the lines of the GL-3, it's not surprising that the same guy designed the early Aeroncas.

 

[Dynoman]

Recently received a wonderful gift...a document in both English (partial document) and Russian (full document w/o pictures) on the Aeromarine Dusting Aircraft.

The aircraft was designed after the general configuration of the Aeromarine Air Mail No.2 aircraft with some design modifications. The forward cockpit would be occupied by a 'hopper operator' with the pilot seated behind him. The operator would be replaced by an automatic hopper operation system activated by the pilot in the 'future.'

 

[Dynoman]

Additional information on ADA:

"The total capacity of the compartment allotted to the hopper and cockpit of the operator is 47 cubic feet while the capacity of the hopper itself at the present is 31 cubic feet." pg.10

"Furthermore, by the mere opening of a valve the pilot can spray the motor and carburetor's with pyrene from a three gallon tank under pressure which allows the extinguishing of any fire during flight." pg. 10.

"Landing gear is a very wide tread - 9 1/2 feet, and is of the two wheel 'axleless' type." "The landing gear is faired with balsa wood" "The tail skid is steerable."

The steel tube fuselage is covered with ALCOA 17S aluminum.

 

[cluttonfred]

Sound interesting but you put up a 765 KB attachment of...the cover?

 

[Dynoman]

Cluttonfred, yes I just scanned the cover as the English version has no drawings of the aircraft configuration (it does however have one of the fuel system and landing gear mount), however the front matter list drawings which included a 3-view (again missing), but has technical description of the fuselage and landing gear, which start mid way through the document. The Russian document, which as far as I can tell is an exact duplicate of the English document from typing sections in to a translator, and by page count appears to be the whole document, but missing the appendix with the drawings.

The couple of drawings embedded in the documents of the mount and fuel system I'll post later if interested. One drawing which I'll post, is a little strange as it references a bomb bay. I think that it was put in the document as an example of construction techniques. Its of all metal construction.

If anyone speaks Russian and is interested in translating the Russian version let me know.

 

[Dynoman]

ADA wing stub and landing gear mount.

 

[Dynoman]

Bomb Bay Compartment from ADA document for construction technique.

 

[Dynoman]

Wondering if the bomb compartment drawing is for the Type XII aircraft? Maybe Memaerobilia or someone has a description of the Type XII fuselage construction?

 

[Dynoman]

Thanks to the archivist at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum my request for the registration card for the Aeromarine SBG-1 NC84V was returned with the following information:

Aircraft Registration: 84V
Mfg Serial No. : 1
Make: Aeromarine
Model: SBG-1 Glider
ATC No.: N/A
Mfg Date: July 1931
No. of Engines: 0
Engine Make: N/A
Engine Model: N/A
Engine HP: N/A
Engine SN: N/A
General Description: Seaplane Mono Glider
Weight:
Licence Applied For: July 17, 1931
ID Number Issue: July 18, 1931
Manufacturer: Aeromarine Plane & Motor Co., Locust, Keyport, NJ as Identified Aircraft #84V
Sold to:
Date purchased:
Subsequent History: Had "Aeromarine Surf-board floats." Manufacturer reported the aircraft was still owned but not in service as of December 10, 1932.
Final Disposition: Cancelled by CAA January 11, 1933.

 

[Dynoman]

Here is a photo from the San Diego Air and Space Museum with the listing of Seaplane Glider, Manufacturer Chapman. I have found no Chapman aircraft companies and wondered if this is the SBG-1, which matches the description. Paul Chapman (if this is the same Chapman) was heavily involved in the Burnelli projects and Chapman tested his aircraft at Keyport. Chapman was a financier who owned Sky Lines, Inc., an airline that would have used Burnelli's flying wing design as its airliner. Chapman's connection to Aeromarine was that Burnelli used Aeromarine's plant for manufacturing space in 1928. The SGB-1 was licensed in July 1931.

Considering the description and the affiliation with Keyport, I'm wondering if this is the same SBG-1 monoplane glider on "surfboard floats" and was sold to Paul Chapman. Any information from someone knowledgeable about Paul Chapman or his projects at Keyport, NJ.

 

[hesham]

Nice find Dynoman.

 

[Stargazer]

Thank you so much Dynoman for all the wonderful searching and digging... Aeromarine is one of my pet companies and it's really cool to see there's still so much out there to be discovered!

 

[Stargazer]

Here's a little something for Dynoman, Jos Heyman, cluttonfred, memaerobilia, and all those with an interest in Aeromarine types: A technical article by B. V. Korvin-Kroukovsky entitled "Proportioning the Plane for Lateral Stability" and published in the Jan 19, 1929 issue of Aviation. It deals mainly with the AM-1 type but also mentions the EO, the AMC and especially the two Malolo aircraft. I find those technical articles a little complicated at times but I'm sure that this will be of great interest to some of you, and that it truly deserves addition to this topic!

 

[Dynoman]

Thank you Skyblazer! I was unfamiliar with the reasoning behind the experiments on the Malolo and the comparisons made between the DH-4 and the AM-1, which were great to read about, especially from the one man who was most acquainted with the design, was very insightful. I'll have to start searching for those technical articles from Korvin-Kroukovsky and looking for those small jewels hidden within them!

 

[Dynoman]

BTW, I have pictures of two other projects that Aeromarine Plane and Motor Co worked on, which may not be applicable for this site. One is a motor speedboat and the other is an aerodynamic bicycle fairing that encompasses the entire bicycle. I'm trying to determine if the boat was designed for rum runners, as it has a cigarette boat type design, and the bicycle may have been apart of some racing venture Uppercu was a part of (he operated a famous New Jersey bicycle velodrome about the same time frame as the airplane company).

 

[Stargazer]

BTW, I have pictures of two other projects that Aeromarine Plane and Motor Co worked on, which may not be applicable for this site. One is a motor speedboat and the other is an aerodynamic bicycle fairing that encompasses the entire bicycle. I'm trying to determine if the boat was designed for rum runners, as it has a cigarette boat type design, and the bicycle may have been apart of some racing venture Uppercu was a part of (he operated a famous New Jersey bicycle velodrome about the same time frame as the airplane company).

Personally I wouldn't fret about these occupying merely a post in the course of this thread... After all we've already had a snow sled, I think... But just in case others mind, you can always send them to me on my e-mail address, they will certainly be appreciated! ;D

 

[Dynoman]

Here are two Aeromarine Plane and Motor Co. projects that were 'aero' and 'hydro' -dynamic. The Aeromarine H-26 speedboat and the aerodynamic bicycle fairing.

The company never ceases to amaze! Having built Navy training planes and licensed built bombers in WWI, sportsman aerial yachts and airline seaplanes in the 1920's, with limited productions and designs for buses, boats, and bicycles, (among other things) Aeromarine was truly a renaissance company.

 

[Dynoman]

Interesting side item to Aeromarine Plane and Motor Co.

Aeromarine's leading distributor on the west coast of the US, Continental Aircraft, Inc., had plans, which were endorsed by Aeromarine, for the construction of an Aeromarine aircraft factory in the area of San Francisco, CA in 1920. This certainly would have made sales easier than to transport aircraft from the east coast to the west coast. Unfortunately, nothing seemed to materialize from this venture. This would have added to the sites of manufacture, which included Nutley, NJ, and Keyport, NJ.

 

[hesham]

Interesting side item to Aeromarine Plane and Motor Co.

Aeromarine's leading distributor on the west coast of the US, Continental Aircraft, Inc., had plans, which were endorsed by Aeromarine, for the construction of an Aeromarine aircraft factory in the area of San Francisco, CA in 1920. This certainly would have made sales easier than to transport aircraft from the east coast to the west coast. Unfortunately, nothing seemed to materialize from this venture. This would have added to the sites of manufacture, which included Nutley, NJ, and Keyport, NJ.

Nice Info Dynoman.

 

[Dynoman]

I found today that the "Aeromarine Passenger-Cargo Land Plane" is the Aeromarine ML design, according to the materials provided by Ted Koch. Looking for information that may substantiate this designation. The ML may have stood for Multiengine Land(?).

Also, the materials include three photos of a seaplane under construction in what appears to be the Aeromarine factory that are indicated as "unknown." The aircraft looks like a Model 40, however, its fuselage is streamlined (i.e. its cross section is an ellipse with the widest radius on the sides). This is unlike the other seaplanes of the Aeromarine Plane and Motor Company. The type of construction used looks like it was being developed circa 1918.

I will try and provide some more information on this design later.

 

[hesham]

Wow,we will wait this Great photos and Infos.

 

[Dynoman]

Here is one of the photos of the Unknown Aeromarine seaplane. It came from the collection of Ted Koch. The seaplane looks of similar configuration to the Model 40, however, the sides are oval (another photo shows the smooth round of the hull). I'm currently searching for data that verifies that it is of Aeromarine origin and what model it is. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Dynoman]

This maybe the Model 41(?!!!). There was a conversion project in 1922, and was described in a "letter." If anyone knows of the letter or the contents of the letter that would be great! (Lists of Aeromarine aircraft indicates a Model 41 was identified from information found in a letter?).

 

[Dynoman]

Unknown design looks like it has an Aeromarine 90hp engine.

 

[hesham]

Nice picture,

and I think you are right Dynoman.

 

[Dynoman]

The Model 41 appears to be a simple variant of the Model 40. According to this site the photos below were taken in 1923 of a Model 40 that was converted to a Model 41 in 1922.
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/OnlineLibrary/photos/ac-usn11/aerom40.htm

 

[hesham]

The Model 41 appears to be a simple variant of the Model 40. According to this site the photos below were taken in 1923 of a Model 40 that was converted to a Model 41 in 1922.
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/OnlineLibrary/photos/ac-usn11/aerom40.htm

Very similar.

 

[Dynoman]

Unknown photo of Aeromarine may be the first Aeromarine design, which was known as the "Flying Boat" of 1914. This design's drawing was published with the announcement of the Aeromarine Plane & Motor Company's creation in 1914 and its exclusive rights to the Boland patents. The aircraft was to have jibs for flight control. The design may have originated with the Boland Airplane and Motor Company and became an Aeromarine model when the Boland concern was purchased.

 

[hesham]

Nice find Dynoman.

 

[robunos]

The Aeromarine/Robinson R-13 "Cootie"

A search doesn't turn this up, so . . .

The Aeromarine/Robinson R-13 "Cootie"

From the AEHS website :-

http://www.enginehistory.org/Piston/Before1925/Aeromarine/R-13.shtml

"The Robinson-designed R-13 "Cootie" was one of the world's first sport planes. It featured a unique one-off 30 hp 4-cylinder geared inline engine, which in many ways was state-of-the-art for its day."


cheers,
Robin.

 

[dan_inbox]

Found this other view in my files:

 

[Dynoman]

Robunos and dan_inbox thank you! Great website and picture. I wonder how much support from the company the R-13 received. With an Aeromarine brochure for the R-13 it shows that the aircraft was not just a project aircraft, but one that was most likely intended to be manufactured. Maybe lack of utility or too small of a market for a very light sport aircraft had yet to emerged (e.g. similar marketing problems occurred for the 1927 Ford Flivver, which never got past the prototype stage despite its enthusiastic fanfare).

 

[robunos]

I wonder how much support from the company the R-13 received. With an Aeromarine brochure for the R-13 it shows that the aircraft was not just a project aircraft, but one that was most likely intended to be manufactured.

Indeed. The implication of the AEHS article is that the R-13 was not an 'official' Aeromarine product, hence my decision not to post it into this topic, but the existence of a company brochure suggests otherwise. Maybe Aeromarine decided to 'adopt' the R-13, once it had flown, and shown promise . . .


cheers,
Robin.

 

[Dynoman]

Aeromarine patent (1367216 issued Feb 1, 1921) by Inglis Uppercu (filed Feb 5, 1919) for a twin fuselage seaplane.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a 3-view to Model-52 & Model-60 from Aircraft Yearbook 1922 & 1923

 

[Grey Havoc]

Hesham, I think you accidently put in the Model-52 image twice.