• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Aeroblic - A concept from the late '50s

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,225
Reaction score
932
In the german magazine "Luftfahrttechnik" fromJuly 1958, I've found an article about
a concept for STOL aircraft, called "Aeroblic" . It's a mixture of ringwing and ducted
prop/ducted fan and was intended by his french inventor, I. Labat for civil and military
use. The first drawing shows, what a proof-of-concept demonstrator would have looked
like and the second explains the principle.
Drawing 3 is an artist's impression of an airliner/transport version, in the last drawing
fourtypes are shown in profile, described as : communications- or mail a/c, COIN/
ASW a/c,light transport, airliner/troop transport (identical to the artist's impression,
I think).
The article claims, the concept could be developed to VTOL capability and the whole
thing reminds me to the Dornier Aerodyne concept.
 

Attachments

  • aeroblic-1.JPG
    aeroblic-1.JPG
    117.7 KB · Views: 931
  • aeroblic-2.JPG
    aeroblic-2.JPG
    110.8 KB · Views: 803
  • aeroblic-3.JPG
    aeroblic-3.JPG
    132.5 KB · Views: 769
  • aeroblic-4.JPG
    aeroblic-4.JPG
    77.4 KB · Views: 722

sferrin

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
13,388
Reaction score
1,430
That top one looks like a Romulan Warbird :D
 

GTX

All hail the God of Frustration!!!
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
2,997
Reaction score
495
Website
beyondthesprues.com
I have seen a similar design to the top ones proposed more recently - just wish I could remember where. I will do some searching.

Regards,

Greg
 

elmayerle

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
1,348
Reaction score
118
Reminds me of some of the Lippisch aerodynes from the late-50s/early 60s.
 

boxkite

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2006
Messages
847
Reaction score
146
A little bit off-topic, but thought as an addition to Jemiba's Dornier Aerodyne picture, here are two photos from the Dornier Information 72D5, a company-own magazine.
 

Attachments

  • Aerodyne.JPG
    Aerodyne.JPG
    52.6 KB · Views: 336
  • Aerodyne_002.JPG
    Aerodyne_002.JPG
    52 KB · Views: 93

JAZZ

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Mar 12, 2006
Messages
295
Reaction score
75
Dornier did some interesting work on a navy UAV -
 

Attachments

  • GER- Dornier HSD Aerodyne_1 .jpg
    GER- Dornier HSD Aerodyne_1 .jpg
    56.8 KB · Views: 118

amsci99

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
238
Reaction score
6
JAZZ,

Looks like another of Dr Lippisch's Aerodyne projects which he began at Collins Radio Company in the 50's. I recall Dornier later did a 'pure jet' version. Always curious how the concept worked, something to do with the Coanda effect? Wonder if the Moller Skycar employs a similar concept?
 

JAZZ

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Mar 12, 2006
Messages
295
Reaction score
75
It dates in the mid-late 1970's (76-78) and is effectively two Dornier Aerodyne engine outfits side by side. Interesting thing is that Hawker Siddeley was also involved with this concept.
 

JAZZ

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Mar 12, 2006
Messages
295
Reaction score
75
Just a bit more info (from Jane's) on the Dornier HSD (Hawker Siddeley Dynamics) Martime Aerodyne

length 4.90m
width 3.00m
height 2.6m
Max ToW 1360kg
Powred by one turboshaft enhine driving two 9 blade shrounded fans.
Max speed 610kmhr
Ceiling in horizontal flight - 6700m and in hover 1200m
Range 1500km with 100kg payload
 

weirc

ACCESS: Confidential
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
60
Reaction score
7
Another picture of the dornier maritime aerodyne from Jane's. Does anybody have a three view?
 

Attachments

  • dornier.jpg
    dornier.jpg
    29.5 KB · Views: 1,025

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,031
Reaction score
202
Re: Ivan Labat Aéroblic VTOL projects......

Dear Boys and Girls, here is a contemporary article in French about Ivan Labat's Aéroblic VTOL "projects". I don't know if this ever made it to hardware or flight-test status, so I'm assuming (for now) that the Aéroblic remained a "project"......

The article comes from the 15th June 1957 issue of Les Ailes......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Attachments

  • Ivan Labat Aéroblic VTOL projects - Les Ailes - No. 1,637 - 15 Juin 1957.......jpg
    Ivan Labat Aéroblic VTOL projects - Les Ailes - No. 1,637 - 15 Juin 1957.......jpg
    149.6 KB · Views: 197

Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
11,776
Reaction score
1,913
Pity there doesn't appear to be more detail available on No. 2 in the aeroblic-4.JPG, the Colonial Policing, Ground Attack or ASW variant, apart from what's in the article Caravellarella found. I suppose it was intended as a relatively low cost and flexible piece of equipment for the French Colonial Forces, as well as to help equip French Navy shore based units stationed out of her colonies.
 

Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
11,776
Reaction score
1,913
Jemiba said:
"Hell, all civil jets look the same!"

Non not all !
This design of the french engineer I.Labat looks remarkably different.
It's from 1958 and was credited with ultra-short take-off.
(from Luftfahrttechnik .7.58 )

 

Avimimus

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
1,968
Reaction score
83
I was looking at the proposed Aéroblic demonstrator side view... and I'm hoping someone can explain it!

- With the thrust diverters extended the center of lift should move far towards the rear of the aircraft.

- However in normal forward flight the center of gravity has to be fairly far forward in order to keep it in front of the neutral point (and allow stability).

So how was this supposed to fly? The Lippisch-Dornier designs have the thrust diverters near the cruise CL (which makes sense) but I can't see how the Aeroblic could take off without the changed pitch-moment and rearward shift of CL causing it to nose down uncontrollably.

What am I missing? What am I not seeing here?
 

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,225
Reaction score
932
My attempt for an explanation is, that the Aeroblic wasn't a VTOL, but a STOL design, so during take-off the wings
and flying surfaces had to be taken into account. Tried to make a quick sketch using the principal drawing (second
picture in the first post)showing where lift is produced. The downward vectored engine thrust may well have been
compensated by the aerodynamic lift (sorry, was too lazy to change the guide vanes in the second sketch),
the different airfoil sections of the upper and lower part of that ring wing perhaps contributed to a balanced
overall lift at lower airspeeds.
 

Attachments

  • aeroblic.gif
    aeroblic.gif
    110 KB · Views: 223

minmachine

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
21
Reaction score
7
"I have seen a similar design to the top ones proposed more recently - just wish I could remember where. I will do some searching"

GTX I think the recent proposal you are thinking of is NASA's gridlock commuter pav.
 

Attachments

  • 0603026_5.jpg
    0603026_5.jpg
    46.3 KB · Views: 227

dan_inbox

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
769
Reaction score
291
It says VERTICAL take off. For this, one must assume that the nose is pitched up nearly vertical (as hinted in Jens' first picture in the middle, but even more so).
Now for the passenger version, it would stretch the idea...
 

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,225
Reaction score
932
Yes, the article in "Les Ailes" speaks of vertical flight, but the mentioned one in "Luftfahrttechnik"
clearly says "STOL with the potential for further dervelopment into VTOL". So I think, those designs
still are meant for STOL, maybe ESTOL, which is to my opinion supported by the shown layout of
the landing gear/attitude on the ground and the direction of the vectored thrust.
 

Avimimus

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
1,968
Reaction score
83
Jemiba said:
My attempt for an explanation is, that the Aeroblic wasn't a VTOL, but a STOL design, so during take-off the wings
and flying surfaces had to be taken into account. Tried to make a quick sketch using the principal drawing (second
picture in the first post)showing where lift is produced. The downward vectored engine thrust may well have been
compensated by the aerodynamic lift (sorry, was too lazy to change the guide vanes in the second sketch),
the different airfoil sections of the upper and lower part of that ring wing perhaps contributed to a balanced
overall lift at lower airspeeds.

Thank you Jemiba for your informed opinion. It seems plausible.

It is a bit difficult to make sense of given the relatively unusual airfoils used. I'll work on a crude computer model of it and see if I can figure out how to balance the CL shift.
 

Sundog

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
2,820
Reaction score
266
It's the same aerodynamics behind the Lippisch (Dornier) Aerodyne, as shown on the first page. It is VTOL technology. The equations are in the book on the Aerodynamics of Lippisch' designs.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,695
Reaction score
3,479
From Ailes 23/2/1957.
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    571.2 KB · Views: 40
  • 2.png
    2.png
    330.5 KB · Views: 38

Similar threads

Top