• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

1973 requirement SOR 206 : AWACS competitors

Jemiba

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
7,994
Reaction score
150
In the second from top, the radom would be tilted sideways for landing ? Or would it have been inflatable, as in
the Sea King AEW and fitted into a bay on the underside, when not in use ?
 

Ardavan.K

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Messages
148
Reaction score
2
CJGibson said:
Duncan,

You want to do one of these:

Chris
How the Landing would take place in the 3rd,4th, and 5th Concept Models?

Thank you,
AK
 

northerndancer2000

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
46
Reaction score
0
CJGibson said:
Duncan,

You want to do one of these:

Chris

Is this one of the drawings from the forthcoming The Air Staff and AEW? I have the same question as Jemiba and Ardavan about how to land the versions with the big Tootsie-Pops radomes. On the second, it looks like there may be an outline of a radome shaped hatch to allow the radome to be swung forward for landing?


Thanks
 

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,723
Reaction score
170
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
McDonnell Douglas DC-8 AWACS model manufactured by PacMin Marketing Aids found on eBay.

URL:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-8-AWACS-PacMin-Pacific-Miniatures-Vintage-Factory-Topping-type-Concept-Model-/200910936740?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec7399aa4

This was the earliest concept proposed by McDonnell Douglas for the USAF AWACS program, which eventually was won by Boeing. As the design evolved, MacDac successively moved the radome forward to minimize interference with tail control surfaces. Pacific Miniatures made this injection-molded model sometime around 1965. Fuselage length is 11.5 inches and wingspan is 11 inches. Like all PacMin models, the build quality is first class. It's in superb shape--no warping, dings, or decal chips. Two engines were reattached but the repairs were well done. The wood & metal stand has an intact felt bottom. The raised metal nameplate reads simply "McDonnell Douglas AWACS" and bears the modern MacDac logo. Insurance is included. And please check out my other auctions of unusual desktop models this week.
 

Attachments

allysonca

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
169
Reaction score
136
FYI, all of the Douglas AWAC's models were not made by Pac Min, but Marketing Aids, a Douglas associated model shop that was located in Anaheim CA. Master model maker Al Parker did most of the models and his wife Ann put on the blade antennas on the upper fuselage running down the center line. There were 2 sizes that were made in large numbers. This example does not have the blades for some reason, but it was not uncommon as I have seen both version. Models were Viet Nam camo and silver.
 

Pioneer

Seek out and close with the enemy
Senior Member
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
1,659
Reaction score
32
Very interesting find gents!!Love the model, love the information!Especially interesting -
"The USAF finally made a decision and awarded the contract to Boeing, which was running out of work at the time"
I would love to see more pictures of that McDonnell Douglas mock-up :p RegardsPioneer
 

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,723
Reaction score
170
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
McDonnell Douglas DC-8 AWACS models found on eBay. Note the different positions of the radome.

Source:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DOUGLAS-AWACS-PROPOSALS-RARE-VTG-NOT-TOPPING-OR-PRECISE-/121099268931?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c32143343
 

Attachments

Pioneer

Seek out and close with the enemy
Senior Member
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
1,659
Reaction score
32
Nice one Mark! Very nice!!

Regards
Pioneer
 

Mark Nankivil

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
1,526
Reaction score
126
Greetings All -

Back when the radome was on the fin....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Chrome-BOEING-AWACS-DESK-ASHTRAY-holder-stand-Bainbridge-model-airplane-/281107717558?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item4173535db6

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,769
Reaction score
816
Great find my dear Mark,


also you put the picture here.
 

Attachments

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,243
Reaction score
77
Triton said:
Indentation for an ash tray?
Have you been to the eBay page? That's exactly what it was, an ashtray stand.
 

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,723
Reaction score
170
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
Stargazer2006 said:
Have you been to the eBay page? That's exactly what it was, an ashtray stand.
Sorry, it was a joke I was trying to make that fell flat. Attitudes about smoking have changed since the mid-1970s in the United States. Boeing wouldn't make a gift of an astray stand today.
 

circle-5

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
46
These were advertised by Bainbridge as paper clip holders. Allyn Models came equipped with a glass ashtray, cleverly positioned so the model would always be soaked in tar and nicotine.
 

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,723
Reaction score
170
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
circle-5 said:
These were advertised by Bainbridge as paper clip holders. Allyn Models came equipped with a glass ashtray, cleverly positioned so the model would always be soaked in tar and nicotine.
Thanks for the information, circle-5.
 

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,723
Reaction score
170
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
Boeing AWACS concept model manufactured by Bainbridge Manufacturing found on eBay.

Source:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Vintage-AWACS-Boeing-707-Desk-Display-Model-by-Bainbridge-Mfg-WA-/360858331123?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5404d527f3
 

Attachments

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,380
Reaction score
630
Douglas model D-989 - Direct predecessor of /alternative to D-990?

(Presumably a response to TAC/ADC SOR 206 entitled "Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS)" hence the "ADC/TAC" text)


Source:
http://beigleart.com/aviation-artwork-memorabilia/
 

Attachments

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,380
Reaction score
630
Slightly OT but:


(Added colour photos from old version posted long ago http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,473.msg3337.html#msg3337)

http://skillmansofamerica.com/AWACHIST.pdf

Development of the Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) Radar

Robert E. Cowdery, Life Senior Member, IEEE
Westinghouse Retired, Deceased
William A. Skillman, Life Fellow Member, IEEE

Nice PDF history of Westinghouse AWACS radar development - I wasn't aware it was descended from the APQ-81 radar from the Missileer.
 

fightingirish

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,123
Reaction score
97
This is an early configuration for a 707-based AWACS aircraft. The illustration shows Boeing’s initial configuration for the AWACS, which featured a tail-mounted rotodome mounted on a forward-swept vertical stabilizer.
Source: http://www.boeingimages.com/archive/Early%20E-3%20AWACS%20Concept-2F3XC5OGQM5.html
 

Attachments

circle-5

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
46
Same photo, after removing all the Boeing logos, titles and watermarks. Thankfully, no other manufacturer is that obsessed with squeezing profits from illustrations that were paid for decades ago by American taxpayers. [end of rant]
 

Attachments

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,243
Reaction score
77
circle-5 said:
Thankfully, no other manufacturer is that obsessed with squeezing profits from illustrations that were paid for decades ago by American taxpayers. [end of rant]
Couldn't agree more... ::)
 

circle-5

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
46
The Artist said:
A pair of photos of a wind tunnel model of the DC-8-62 AWACS concept. These are part of that recent donation to the Museum.
The long fuselage stretch suggests a DC-8-61 or DC-8-63 airframe, though it's a bit hard to tell ...
 

aim9xray

CLEARANCE: Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
491
Reaction score
32
The plug sections that are visible on the model fuselage indicate that it is indeed a stretch; the engine pylon configuration matches that of the DC-8 Super 62 and 63 aircraft. If those are the stock fuselage plugs, than this model would appear to be based on the DC-8 Super 63.
 

circle-5

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
46
aim9xray said:
The plug sections that are visible on the model fuselage indicate that it is indeed a stretch; the engine pylon configuration matches that of the DC-8 Super 62 and 63 aircraft. If those are the stock fuselage plugs, than this model would appear to be based on the DC-8 Super 63.
Thank you for narrowing it down. Coming to think of it, I've never seen evidence of a DC-8-61 AWACS proposal. The model I have at home is also based on the Super 63.
 

Attachments

The Artist

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
531
Reaction score
16
All the photographs from that donation are currently out for high resolution scanning. (I do low resolution scans here as part of cataloging some of the items into the collection.) These two pictures were part of a photographic print of a page number 36 of report G854, Vol. I which seems to be an introductory or instructional document on low speed wind tunnel operation at McDonnell Aircraft. (No. We do not have the full report.) The date on the page is 20 March 1969, and the model is listed as LB-161M. Also included in the header information on the page is a negative/image number - D4E-503907 - which I take to be the negative number for this page. Typed above the forward view of the model is "THREE STRUT MODEL INSTALLATION (S63Ra6Hs4A)" I don't speak wind tunnel, so maybe someone else here can translate that string. Another photographic page in the donation is page 35 of the same report. (negative number D4E-503906) The photos on this page show the model is straight airliner configuration, and it is also listed as LB-161M. Above the forward view picture on this page is typed "TWO STRUT MODEL INSTALLATION (S62)."

A number of items in this donation are a booklet and a series of one or two page documents each giving introductory overview of McDonnell's Low Speed Wind Tunnel, the Mini-speed Wind Tunnel, and the Polysonic Wind Tunnel. (These items are also out for full scanning.) I've been told that the person who donated these items spent a lot of his career time at MAC doing wind tunnel work.

I get the feeling I've added to the confusion on this subject. That makes this a good day.
 

RAP

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
615
Reaction score
169
Douglas AWACS Model

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Douglas-Dc-8-AWACS-USAF-Resin-Manufacture-Model-Likely-Hyatt-Or-PacMin-Models/123250221412?hash=item1cb2492164:g:3AsAAOSwJRxbMqHn
 

Attachments

RAP

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
615
Reaction score
169
Drawings from AWST. These were cut out of the article which I have not posted. They are similar to many of the others in this thread but I thought I'd include them.
 

Attachments

Archibald

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
2,267
Reaction score
99
That inverted tail is intriguing, particularly with a Soviet AWACS borrowing the trick from Boeing (the An-72 AWACS).
 
Top