1946 USAAF Penetration Fighter (XF-88, XF-90)

[hesham]

Nothing more to add

Oh my God,


it is dream to see Goodyear fighter project,thank you my dear Tailspin very much.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

XP-88 spin test model

http://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/20-Foot_Spin_Tunnel_(645)_Models_and_Tests_N-Z#P-88

 

[Stargazer]

An attempt at reworking the rough plan provided by Tailspin Turtle a few posts above. Far from perfect, but the original was pretty approximate in places!

 

[Spook]

Hello,

somehow unrelated but here is the photo of Shah of Iran taking look at what looks like to be XF-90. I found this photo with the following description:

"Burbank California, Shah of Iran touring the Lockheed Aircraft Corporation Plant. Left to Right are Robert E.Gross, President of Lockheed, Hal Hibbard vice President of Engineering, and the Shah as they look at the model of s Supersonic Plane. (circa 1949)"

Regards,

Ak

 

[Kiltonge]

XP-90 46-0688 about to meet its fate during the 1952 Operation Tumbler-Snapper military effects series

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=g0r_4v2hA5c#t=1711

 

[Steve Pace]

Here's the patent issued to Richard G. Laucher - inventor of the MAC Short afterburner section employed by the XF-88A Voodoo. -SP

 

[hesham]

13 companies and 20 design proposals:

1) Curtiss-Wright Model P-...
2) Consolidated-Vultee Model ...
3) Goodyear Model GA-...
4) Lockheed L-153...
5) McDonnell M-36A,-36B,-36C
6) Northrop XP-79Z
7) John Abbeman Model ...
8) Management and Research Model ...
9) ? Model ...
10) ? Model ...
11) ? Model ...
12) ? Model ...
13) ? Model ...

What can we say about this?

Now we can add;

Goodyear ; GA-16
Convair ; un-numbered swept wing project
Curtiss-Wright ; P-1032-50

 

[fightingirish]

ebay - MCDONNELL-AIRCRAFT-MODEL-36H-PHOTO-RECONNAISSANCE-VERSION-OF-THE-F-88

B)

McDonnell F-88 Photo Recce Proposal (Model 36H)

A proposal by McDonnell Aircraft to turn the F-88 into a photo reconnaissance aircraft. This is a poor copy of that historically interesting proposition.

Click here to download proposal in PDF form

Source: http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2015/12/mcdonnell-f-88-photo-recce-proposal.html

 

[fightingirish]

B)

NACA XP-88 Wind Tunnel Research Memorandums
Three NACA XP-88 Wind Tunnel research memorandums involving a 1/50th scale model and two 1/24th scale models. One test with the vee tail configuration as shown in the above photos! Credit: The Greater St. Louis Air and Space Museum

Click here to download the 1/50th scale memo

Click here to download the 1/24th scale memo with the conventional tail

Click here to download the 1/24th scale memo with the vee tail

Click here to view photos

Source:
http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2015/12/naca-xp-88-wind-tunnel-research.html

 

[hesham]

Here it's,

- Convair Downey

Consolidated Vultee Downey Penetration Fighter Proposal Specifications and Pictures

Page details technical specifications, development, and operational history of the Consolidated Vultee Downey Penetration Fighter Proposal including pictures.

www.militaryfactory.com

 

[Vahe Demirjian]

I think this thread should be removed from "Postwar Aircraft Projects" and placed under "Aerospace" because it deals with a fighter jet that reached the hardware phase.

 

[Jemiba]

... because it deals with a fighter jet that reached the hardware phase.

Merged with older thread. About the demand of moving the thread, please read the Forum Rules
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/forum-rules-7-0-all-users-please-read.18180/, point 4 :
" ... Prototypes that didn't enter series production may also be appropriate at the discretion of the moderators.
Aircraft built in series production should generally be discussed in the "Aerospace" section ... "

 

[Johnbr]

From Flickr

 

[pegasus]

beautiful aircraft

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

I found some early artwork for the Lockheed XF-90, dated from June 1947.

https://flic.kr/p/bunDhp

It sort of reminds of a Gloster Javelin.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

ebay - MCDONNELL-AIRCRAFT-MODEL-36H-PHOTO-RECONNAISSANCE-VERSION-OF-THE-F-88

B)

McDonnell F-88 Photo Recce Proposal (Model 36H)

A proposal by McDonnell Aircraft to turn the F-88 into a photo reconnaissance aircraft. This is a poor copy of that historically interesting proposition.

Click here to download proposal in PDF form

Source: http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2015/12/mcdonnell-f-88-photo-recce-proposal.html

Higher res copy posted at http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2021/04/mcdonnell-f-88-photo-recce-proposal.html

 

[hesham]

Nice report my dear PaulMM,

and from Jstor site,maybe that was early concept of 1947 for Lockheed
XF-90,or that was a generic design ?.

JSTOR Home

JSTOR is a digital library of academic journals, books, and primary sources.

www.jstor.org

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

You need to cite the source article hesham. Linking jstor.org is wholly useless, it has hundreds of thousands of articles.

 

[hesham]

You are absolutely right my dear Paul,

but the problem I took it from that site from many days,and
I always search in a tens of reports per a day,I will try to
figure out about it again,I can't remember the name of the
report,except it was from 1947 ?.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Don't you download the whole article? If you do just check the dates

 

[hesham]

Unfortunately I choose the reading only in the options,and
I never made a download to the report,tomorrow I promise
you to make a big search on it.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

While the XF-88 and 90 were the original contenders, the slightly later YF-93 (aka F-86C) was also brought into this program because of the poor performance of the Lockheed and McDonnell designs. The YF-93 used the F-86 Saber's wings and tail mated to a new fatter fuselage with side air scoops using the NACA's recent designs on transonic and sonic air flow into an air scoop.

 

[hesham]

Sorry for that my dear Paul,

the report was from 1953,my fault,please accept my apology,and
the whole article from Lockheed,and here is anther two fighter
Projects,maybe from the same period (1947) ?.

Airplane Configurations for High-Speed Flight on JSTOR

THIS paper discusses problems encountered in the Mach number range of 0 to 2 with aircraft having different wing planforms. The delta-wing type is compared to t...

www.jstor.org

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

So - a good point to mention - this is an article by Lockheed's famous designer Clarence "Kelly" Johnson, so all the information and drawings can be taken to be authentic.

The delta design is prseumably part of the XF-90 studies, but I don't have another drawing of it or details of designation. Probably L-167-xx. The XF-90 was originally contracted as a delta wing.

 

[hesham]

The delta design is prseumably part of the XF-90 studies, but I don't have another drawing of it or details of designation. Probably L-167-xx. The XF-90 was originally contracted as a delta wing.

That's right my dear Paul,

and here is a very close to it.

 

[hesham]

My dear PaulMM,I have a surprise for you,

when I saw the Lockheed delta wing fighter first time,I said to my
self,we displayed it in SPF,no need to send it again,but maybe it is not
the same artist drawing; We have it already on the forum before,I am
sure by 90 %,but where or maybe it was on Theoretical and Speculative
section,maybe it is not mentioned by the same year,could be less
or more ?!.

 

[hesham]

My dear PaulMM,

I make a big search,it's here;

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/nasa-aircraft-projects.2405/page-2

Popular Mechanics

Popular Mechanics inspires, instructs and influences readers to help them master the modern world. Whether it’s practical DIY home-improvement tips, gadgets and digital technology, information on the newest cars or the latest breakthroughs in science -- PM is the ultimate guide to our high-tech...

books.google.com.eg

 

[Stargazer]

I have tried to research Management & Research and also John F. Abbeman, who both submitted proposals in the penetration fighter competition. However, despite the fact that Abbeman was described at the time of his death as a "nationally-known aircraft designer", I have found very little about him. Still, here are chronological elements that hopefully will shed some light on the design evolution that led to the penetration fighter proposals of 1948:

About Management & Research:

• 1937: Management & Research Inc., is set up in New York City, NY. A Thomas Hoff design, the two-seat all-metal tailless cabin flying wing, the H-70, is built under a Department of Commerce program contract for lightplane development. The H-70 crashes twice with only about 60 hours total time.
• Aug. 1945: the Management & Research H-70 tailless prototype is rebuilt as the H-71 Bumble-bee by Tuscar Metals Co., Inc. of Cleveland, OH, and flown at Floyd Bennett Field for about 60 hours before crashing in Aug. 1945.
• 29 Oct. 1945: Management & Research (now in Philadelphia, PA) submits the "P-4A" penetration fighter design (Spec. 0092A, Rev. A., Model Spec. H-92A) to the USAF.

About John Abbeman:

• Circa 1888-89: John Frederick Abbeman is born in Java.
• 1940: Abbeman is an engineer with the Cornelius Aircraft company, recently settled in Dayton, OH.
• 1941: Cornelius Aircraft designs the Mallard flying wing, which is constructed by Spartan Aircraft in Tulsa, OK.
• 1941-1942: Abbeman is with the Vega Aircraft company in Los Angeles for a year.
• 1942: Cornelius produces a sub-scale, twin-fin, forward-sweep flying wing proof-of-concept glider.
• Early Nov. 1942: returns to Dayton, Ohio and resumes connection with Cornelius Aircraft Corp.
• 1943: Cornelius files a patent for a control system pertaining to a twin-fin four-engine transport flying wing of similar configuration as 1942 demonstrator. A similar triple-fin heavy bomber design is also studied.
• Sep. 1943: Abbeman is praised by George W. Cornelius as one of the men who helped him with design and construction of his Mallard. Another engineer mentioned is William Wunderlich.
• 1944: The USAAF orders two Cornelius XFG-1 experimental all-wood, unpowered flying gas tank glider prototypes, whose general configuration resembles that of the Mallard; they are constructed by Spartan Aircraft at Tulsa, OK. The type even appears as a "Cornelius-Spartan" product.
• Circa 1944: The USAAF orders the XBG-3 bomb glider from Cornelius, a forward-sweep flying wing which closely resembles the XFG-1 designs. The project, however, is later cancelled.
• 1945: Abbeman is listed in the State Board of Registration for Professional Engineers, Oklahoma City, OK. At that time, his business connection is with the Spartan Aicraft Co. of Tulsa.
• 28 August 1945: the USAF Air Materiel Command (AMC) issues a number of requirements to industry for new pursuit (fighter) aircraft designs, . In particular, the Air Technical Service Center at Wright-Patterson desires proposals for a penetration fighter and an interceptor fighter.
• 1 Nov. 1945: Under his own name, Abbeman submits the "P-8" penetration fighter design (Rpt. 101 Model Spec.?)
• January 1946: "a number of proposals have been received from the industry, including a tailless design from the independent engineer John Abbeman."
• 25 Mar. 1946: Abbeman dies of a heart ailment. His funeral service is held in Tulsa, OK.

IMPORTANT NOTE: the P- prefix in both M&R's and Abbeman's proposals corresponds to a regular USAF practice in those years of assigning a number to all the proposals in a same tender. For instance, Curtiss-Wright's proposal was designated "P-3", Goodyear's GA-16 was designated "P-6" and Northrop's proposal was designated "P-7".

Sources on Abbeman:

• The Dayton Herald, Dayton, Ohio • Thursday, November 5, 1942
• Dayton Daily News, Dayton, Ohio • Wed, Sep 8, 1943
• State Board of Registration for Professional Engineers, Oklahoma City, Okl., 1945
• USAF Engineering Division Finding Aid for Records at the US National Archives II
• Dayton Daily News, Dayton, Ohio • Wednesday, March 27, 1946

 

[Stargazer]

Curtiss-Wright ; P-1032-50

I'm highly doubtful about this particular assertion since Consolidated Vultee's own entry in that competition was designated P-1032. The site Military Factory does mention a series of "P-1032" designs as being Curtiss-Wright in nature (https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.php?aircraft_id=2532 and https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.php?aircraft_id=2533) but I tend to take their assertions with a pinch of salt, considering they claim "help of (...) topic specialists" but never mention any author's name of source document reference... and also the fact that they often completely invent graphic details such as paneling on their re-creations. Even supposing they were right about it, they claim that P-1032-13 was the final iteration of the design, and do not mention of a "P-1032-50". However, the USAAF's Engineering Division Finding Aid for Records DOES list P-1032-50, but as a Consolidated Vultee entry in the Penetration fighter (P) competition, which it was!

CVAC P-1A DWG P-1032-50 General Arrangement​

CVAC P-1A DWG P-1032-51 Inboard Profile​

Of course, this makes me wonder if the Military Factory website isn't just plain wrong, and if the earlier P-1032 designs could have been Consolidated Vultee designs... Sure they do look Curtiss-ish, but who knows? "Similar shapes for similar requirements" has been seen before... Just for the record, at the time of those designs (1944) Curtiss-Wright's project series used designations in the P-290/-310 range (except for the few P-1500+ designs reserved for transport designs originating in Louisville). I strongly doubt that Curtiss-Wright would suddenly have gone totally off with a "P-1032" designator. In 1945, C-W had a P-304-4 jet powered canard pursuit proposal with a General Electric TG-180 engine, and a P-304-5 variant with slightly different specifications. I would be inclined to consider an iteration of P-304 as a valid Curtiss-Wright entry in the penetration fighter competition, but of course it could also be one of the undocumented numbers of that period (P-300, -301, -308, -310-up).

Here is the recap of what we have so far on the Penetration Fighter (P) competition of 1945.



A few remarks:

• It was originally Consolidated Vultee and McDonnell who won the competition, but Lockheed managed to petition for the contract instead, while NAA offered later a less risky proposal (presumably accepted by the USAAF as a back-up solution).
• I do not know if C-V's winning design received a letter contract at all before being cancelled, or if the cancellation took place before one was sent.
• I haven't found the number of the Model Specification report for the McDonnell and North American designs, so if anyone has them, please let me know and I'll update the table.
• Despite his industry experience, John F. Abbeman was offering here his very first (and apparently only) proposal under his name, so one can assume there was no model number, or if any, that it was #1.
• There was no MX- project designation for the F-86C because NAA convinced the Air Force that it could be developed under the cancelled F-86B contract.
• Northrop's model number (if any) is uncertain, but the number "20" appears in several of the EDFAR entries. Since Northrop sometimes reused model numbers in those days, perhaps N-20 was considered but later reassigned to the F-15 Reporter? In that case, "AM-" could signify "Army Model", but of course this is pure speculation and should be regarded as such.
  
  

  Northrop P-7 Rpt. AM-20 Performance Summary

  Northrop P-7 Rpt. AM-20A Performance Summary with Rocket Propulsion

  Northrop P-7 Rpt. W-60 Estimated Weight and Balance

  Northrop P-7 Ltr. 20-3869 Subj: Design Proposal Exp. Fighter Airplane

  Northrop P-7 DWG 532002 General Arrangement

  Northrop P-7 DWG 532003 Inboard Profile

 

[hesham]

Nice work,

and for Curtiss P.1032,it was began with 1032-7 &1032-9,and Lockheed
submitted also L-153,

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Is it possible that the Consolidated entry was the XP-81?

 

[Antonio]

Is it possible that the Consolidated entry was the XP-81?

The XP-81 was proposed in September 1943 to an USAAC requirement from summer of 1943 (WWII escort for bombers operating against Japan), so no relationship with the 1946 Penetration Fighter (Cold War escort)

"Ultimate Allied Fighters" by Justo Miranda pg 171

 

[Stargazer]

Lockheed submitted also L-153,

Yes, you're right, my bad; the accepted design was a delta-wing fighter, but not the L-169, which was the Long-Range Fighter delta-wing proposal for U.S. Navy. I've modified my table.

 

[Antonio]

For Curtiss-Wright P.1032 series see "Early US Jet Fighters" by Tony Buttler (Ed Hikoki) Pg 20 to 23

Army Air Force Penetration Fighter is Chapter#4 same source. From Page 59 to 77

Basically that's THE reference, Strongly recommended

 

[HoHun]

Hi everyone,

This archived page has Standard Aircraft Characteristics Sheets for (among others) the XF-88A, the XF-90 and proposed versions of the F90, and the YF-93:

https://web.archive.org/web/20200229042200/http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/SAC.htm

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)