Given the recent progress with regards to CCA (YFQ-42, 44, 48... Inc 2 soon?), I wonder if disaggregation of capability and shifiting mission equipment to other platforms is indeed part of the concept, eventually to decrease cost of the main platform (F-47).
Disaggregation of mission equipment and capability had been part if it from the very start, but I'm not sure that it necessarily detracts from the capability / required capability of the PCA platform, though that also comes down to which capabilities, how much to offboard, and what the underlying operational contexts are. We should also consider that even though we now have more shooters, the enemy now has far more fieldable and threatening targets in the air - most of which will be unmanned.

The PCA element relies on the rest of the NGAD framework to enable it to perform it's job, which is to penetrate and persist within enemy integrated air defenses, but conversely, it must remain there to enable the rest of the NGAD framework to deliver it's results and that requires a higher margin of survivability. The survivability requirement necessarily means you are at least looking at 5th gen fighter capabilities in some areas while in other areas exceed that - even if other elements already carry the capability. A number of these requirements actually exceed 5th gen baselines while others can get traded away.

What I think cannot be offloaded and why:
  • Meaningful VLO technology. Even with distributed jamming and EM spectrum degradation, that only raises the noise/clutter floor, but to hide in it and remain hard to detect in coverage gaps (and especially against a highly sophisticated network like China's) the PCA element needs to lower it's signature from all aspects and useful wavelengths. That calls at the very minimum for 5th gen level of VLO treatment.
  • Much higher processing capability. The PCA element acts more or less like the stand in forward air controller and needs to sythesize remotely detected tracks, as well as maintain contact and control of the airspace. Compounding this is the fact that the number of targets to track in a future war is going to be exponentially higher with the advent of so many different kinds of amassable drones.
  • Onboard sensing at least as capable as 5th gen fighters, with additional off-axis apertures. The PCA element, if it does it's job right, would be spending most of its time within or possibly behind the vast numbers of static elements that forms the enemy's system of systems construct. Depending on how far you are from your own static supporting elements, you need much greater situational awareness just to not get suprised. I expect the PCA element to have an sizeable but not terribly revolutionary (1.5x) increase in main aperture size with more capable/numerous than 5th gen fighters, but that just how much increase could be arguable
  • Power, cooling and range requirements, of which NGAP forms the centerpiece in terms of capability and cost
What I think can be offloaded (to an extent):
  • Possibly exclude additional sensing capabilities beyond the 5th gen baseline. Not necessarily in aperture size per se, but in aperture count. PCA still needs competetive targeting and EW functionality from the main array, plus baseline survivability functionality in distributed apertures, but beyond that, off axis apertures could maybe be offloaded to CCAs. Personally, I find this to be antithetical to what I understood about the PCA concept and the environment the US wants the F-47 to operate in, but that's because it's a tactical / operational problem that obviously I'm not privy to. Historically, meaningful side looking apertures have been the first thing to get axed when the cost savings man comes around. Whether the new operational complexities have changed that remains to be seen but even in released concept art, the US seems like it just doesn't think a dedicated cheek array is actually that meaningful.
  • Some amount of weapon complement reduction. Even with a generous 8 AAMs in a PCA fighter, one has to wonder if that's a meaningful complement given the sheer number of targets that requires engagement. You certainly can't ever have enough to shoot at everything you'd like to shoot at (onboard) so what difference does 2 or 4 more AAMs make? More than 8 AAMs isn't possible. Retaining 6 AAMs should be good enough. 4 AAMs is possibly enough to enable escape if caught in a disadvantageous A2A engagement and for taking high pK shots at high value targets (which should be the only thing the PCA is shooting at).
  • Additional EW equipment. That's already been offloaded (or was never planned to be included) and has no business going back onto a 6th gen fighter. That's not to say that the F-47 isn't going to be doing any EW, but it'll just be done through is main array / distributed apertures and not any dedicated EW jammers or what not.
To conclude, you probably arent going to get below a 5th gen fighter price tag (and certainly not as mass produced as the F-35) for a useful PCA.
 
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Some core or critical NGAD XoS technologies can be disaggregated. Some can’t, and some shouldn’t.

Energy-based weapons, especially those that could give a robust hard kill capability against ideally more than one multimissile salvo, may be hard to disaggregate (at least in the near term), because powering a continuous laser or HPMW system is no joke.

In this speculative situation, a CCA sensor/emitter or shooter that isn’t purposefully sacrificed for that operation, could benefit from a F-47s defensive systems without having to carry its own, just by flying within that bubble or placing the F-47 between it and the attack vector.

Likewise, if a constellation of CCA have LPI LoS EM and optical based secure comms to network them to each other and to the manned component, then only the manned component and a backup might need a large ventral array for high bandwidth up/down to link the group to ABMS.

Let’s pour one out for F/A-XX. An exquisitely well PNT’d “trail mix” of CCAs with different band AESAs - including S/L, X and UHF - with a couple of shooter CCAs - all quarterbacked by a F/A-XX and supported by MQ-25s was kind of a fun fevered dream for a while.
 
The US Navy has ~800 Super hornets, Growlers and F-35C in service. In 2050 I assume 600 F/A-XX and 200 drones. A 25% reduction in supersonic manned jets.
No, the USN proposals have the 2050 Carrier Air Wing with 2 squadrons of FAXX, maybe 2 squadrons of F-35Cs, and all the rest drones.
 
No, the USN proposals have the 2050 Carrier Air Wing with 2 squadrons of FAXX, maybe 2 squadrons of F-35Cs, and all the rest drones.
In 2050 more than 100 of the oldest F-35C will be retired. These aircraft will be replaced by F/A-XX. You will not change my mind.

The US Navy clearly has a leap frog procurement strategy. They waited until the F-35C reached full capability and production was running smoothly. Then they announced no more Super Hornet purchases.

I expect this strategy to be repeated with F/A-XX. Once F/A-XX is fully operational around 2035 the last delivery of F-35C will occur a few years later.

By 2050 there would only be enough F-35C remaining to average one squadrons per carrier. F/A-XX will be the last manned Navy fighter so eventually it will make up 100% of the carrier air wing by 2060.
 
Someone here asked about where to put DEW at. Here's an oldie but I like it
That was me.

Oh my - I've seen the picture but never bothered to look at the text... cuz lazy.

Not only are the DEW positions fascinating, they happen to be in the same position as those large windows on the J-36 more or less..

The other thing is the entire forward chine being some RF permissive cover with arrays around it. I've considered some iteration of that while thinking about side looking arrays and perhaps the renders do indicate as much. One would think that if the fuselage was blended already, why not blend the chine into it as well? Why does the chine have a pinched line running through it but even the something like the canard/strake doesn't even have any visible lines or seams running through it? Well, maybe array covers forming the chine could be an answer.
 
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The banner is part of Boeing's "Fighterland U.S.A." campaign and first appeared on May 23, 2025... The image itself is likely a photo taken at the factory site, with the background resembling St. Louis Airport or an industrial area.

(I used AI software to search for the image's source) Image_1767446748192.jpg
 

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As an aside, i find it irresistible to note AI responses that are likely deeply informed from posts on this forum.

In a different timeline, posters would simply take a few weekends to read the relevant threads and study their supporting images, presentations and publications, before rediscovering known territory.
 
As an aside, i find it irresistible to note AI responses that are likely deeply informed from posts on this forum.

In a different timeline, posters would simply take a few weekends to read the relevant threads and study their supporting images, presentations and publications, before rediscovering known territory.
I just shifted over to Brave browser (FF pissed me off), and their AI is noting a whole lot of info off this forum.

But at least their AI is in fact citing sources!
 
The only update is the "gray-black house" below.
 

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In 2050 more than 100 of the oldest F-35C will be retired. These aircraft will be replaced by F/A-XX. You will not change my mind.

There is no need to change your mind. The Navy has already described their plan, and this is not it. By 2050 the carrier air wing will be unmanned aircraft and F/A-XX. That is the plan. F/A-XX is not replacing the F-35, unmanned aircraft will.
 
uh, upgrades are not what's keeping a plane flying. Upgrades keep it relevant and effective.
It's airframe service life in flight hours that keeps it flying... and the F-22 suppsedly has 8000 hours of service life.
A combat coded unit flies 400+ hours/year so a busy aircraft would only have 20 years of service.
If the USAF wants to keep it flying longer then either lower the annual flight hours or replace the airframe & wings.
It's ~30 years already and another 30 years. Supposedly 4000 hours are left that's 133 hours/year. That's almost half of non-combat coded units' ~200 hours.
 
I assume they would have purchased it?
The model being sold on Turbosquid is a copy of this model I created in 2017.
00.jpg
01.jpg
All the "author" at Turbosquid did was add vertical tails.
I reported this author to Cgtrader, and they took down the model. But I see they also uploaded it to Turbosquid.
It's like fighting Godzilla to prevent someone from stealing your work.
The air force most likely bought the model from Turbosquid.
 
The model being sold on Turbosquid is a copy of this model I created in 2017.


All the "author" at Turbosquid did was add vertical tails.
I reported this author to Cgtrader, and they took down the model. But I see they also uploaded it to Turbosquid.
It's like fighting Godzilla to prevent someone from stealing your work.
The air force most likely bought the model from Turbosquid.

True artists are never recognized in their time, but do not despair. When historians and critics look back on this time and ask 'who was responsible for the most sloppy clickbait of their era,' they will realize it was not OpenAI and their chatGPT-created slop channels. Rather, it was Rodrigo Avella, an artist who poured countless hours into his craft creating 3D models, models which found their way into works of actual value: military clickbait youtube channels.

I am grateful for your work, for without you there could be no clickbait, nothing to circle in red, nothing to elicit surprised youtube-thumbnail facial expressions. Your work has touched countless millions of people, lost souls in search of some bullshit to click on, lobotomized individuals with no higher brain functions. Without your work there would be no bait, and therefore there would be no click.

Thank you, Rodrigo. On behalf of youtube slop creators everywhere, just... thank you.


1769098142587.png 1769098532871.png 1769098358780.png 1769098426892.png 1769098484192.png
 
The model being sold on Turbosquid is a copy of this model I created in 2017.
All the "author" at Turbosquid did was add vertical tails.
I reported this author to Cgtrader, and they took down the model. But I see they also uploaded it to Turbosquid.
It's like fighting Godzilla to prevent someone from stealing your work.
The air force most likely bought the model from Turbosquid.
Wow, that's depressing
 
True artists are never recognized in their time, but do not despair. When historians and critics look back on this time and ask 'who was responsible for the most sloppy clickbait of their era,' they will realize it was not OpenAI and their chatGPT-created slop channels. Rather, it was Rodrigo Avella, an artist who poured countless hours into his craft creating 3D models, models which found their way into works of actual value: military clickbait youtube channels.

I am grateful for your work, for without you there could be no clickbait, nothing to circle in red, nothing to elicit surprised youtube-thumbnail facial expressions. Your work has touched countless millions of people, lost souls in search of some bullshit to click on, lobotomized individuals with no higher brain functions. Without your work there would be no bait, and therefore there would be no click.

Thank you, Rodrigo. On behalf of youtube slop creators everywhere, just... thank you.


View attachment 799352View attachment 799358View attachment 799355View attachment 799356View attachment 799357
Thank you so much for your kind words.
I know that what I did inspired many people and also led many people to spend thousands of hours watching YouTube content.
I receive messages daily from kids all over the world who tell me they want to design airplanes because my work has inspired them. That, for me, is the best reward.
Thank you again for your kind words!
 
True artists are never recognized in their time, but do not despair. When historians and critics look back on this time and ask 'who was responsible for the most sloppy clickbait of their era,' they will realize it was not OpenAI and their chatGPT-created slop channels. Rather, it was Rodrigo Avella, an artist who poured countless hours into his craft creating 3D models, models which found their way into works of actual value: military clickbait youtube channels.

I am grateful for your work, for without you there could be no clickbait, nothing to circle in red, nothing to elicit surprised youtube-thumbnail facial expressions. Your work has touched countless millions of people, lost souls in search of some bullshit to click on, lobotomized individuals with no higher brain functions. Without your work there would be no bait, and therefore there would be no click.

Thank you, Rodrigo. On behalf of youtube slop creators everywhere, just... thank you.
I might be completely mistaken and if so, I apologize to you, but I find your tone rather sarcastic.

Rodrigo Avella is an artist that has been commissioned several times (even by the USAF from what I understand) to create some of his works.

He's passionate, extremely talented and very capable at what he does.

He's not responsible for what room-IQ people do with his works. He's not responsible for those people stealing his pictures and models and then making "sloppy clickbait" youtube videos.

Maybe you are not aware of it, but long before all these "sloppy clickbait" youtube videos, there were "sloppy clickbait" articles and websites that stole pictures of a very creative modeller that is on whatifmodellers called Dizzyfugu, passing them for real secret aircraft. The same thing happened in the past with another user that posts here on SPF, and that I consider a well of knowledge, Stargazer, whose pictures (that were clearly labelled as fictional) often got reposted elsewhere and purported to be real by the thieves that took them without his permission.

So you can rest assured that, even without Rodrigo's artworks and models, there would still be lots of room-IQ people ready to post "sloppy clickbait" youtube videos, either by using AI or simply by stealing other people's content.

"Thanking" Rodrigo and pointing at him as the underlying cause of these "sloppy clickbait" youtube videos, it's a very myopic and narrow-minded thing to do.

I hope that was not the intent behind your words.
 
I hope that was not the intent behind your words.

My message should be read as dry sarcasm.

I, too, appreciate Rodrigo's work. Rather than deriding Rodrigo, I'm making fun of the people who put his models in their thumbnails to generate military slop clickbait. I'm also making fun of the people who click on these videos, of which there are evidently millions, as some of these videos have hundreds of thousands of views.

The youtube slop clickbaiters are not producing things of value. This was sarcasm. Rodrigo is producing things of value, as evidenced by the fact that so many people steal his work and use it for personal gain.

In reassuring Rodrigo that his videos are being used by clickbaiters, my goal is to elicit a laugh, as surely this would not be reassuring to Rodrigo.

I write messages like these because I have a dry sense of humor and because I enjoy being misunderstood.
 
Given that all USDOD USAF and Boeing (after winning the contract) have all heavily altered the images I've seen a lot of people within this forum begin to highly analyze what information we are given.

With the rise of both AI/computer generated images and software with similar capabilities I don't believe we have quite anything to gain from any official renderings and/or images released.
I believe they have also used this as a tactic to deceive other countries and manufacturers of its true design. Even if very little of that true design was actually revealed.
(Big surprise. An American that doesn't trust it's government media)

What capabilities DOD is worried about obviously as a day 1 fighter would be
undetectability
Range
Weapons bay/pylon capacity and compatibility.

Unless Raytheon is cooking up something for this specific airframe with capability like the RIM-174. I personally believe the focus would be to have this airframe be a JOAT. F-35 or better weapons capabilities with F-22 or better radar cross-section.

In today's day and age of "push button warfare" and drones. With the trend being simplicity and focus of "how far away can I push a button and annihilate troop/piece of equipment/etc etc." I don't doubt the BVR only capability at all. Supermaneuverable aircraft are cool. But I fear this will be slowly phased out starting with the F-47. The confirmed Wingman drones will most likely deal with what will be considered close quarter's combat. If that would even happen.
 
We have some precedent to work off of. None of it guarantees that things are being done with NGAD the same way they have in the past, but we can still look to previous, similar projects and see how they turned out vs. the material released while still under some level of security classification.

The F-117's first published photo was intentionally composed to obfuscate the critical geometry, but it did represent the actual airplane. For a while, the B-2 was allowed to be seen only from certain angles, same as the B-21, which also had somewhat representative renders released long before we saw the real thing.

Consequently it's worth starting from what we have, with the understanding that the thing might totally show up looking like a B-29 with butterfly wings or something.

AI certainly changes the math a little bit but we can clearly see they're not necessarily that sophisticated, buying stolen 3D models and using old art from decade old powerpoints.
 
Given that all USDOD USAF and Boeing (after winning the contract) have all heavily altered the images I've seen a lot of people within this forum begin to highly analyze what information we are given.

With the rise of both AI/computer generated images and software with similar capabilities I don't believe we have quite anything to gain from any official renderings and/or images released.
I believe they have also used this as a tactic to deceive other countries and manufacturers of its true design. Even if very little of that true design was actually revealed.
(Big surprise. An American that doesn't trust it's government media)

What capabilities DOD is worried about obviously as a day 1 fighter would be
undetectability
Range
Weapons bay/pylon capacity and compatibility.

Unless Raytheon is cooking up something for this specific airframe with capability like the RIM-174. I personally believe the focus would be to have this airframe be a JOAT. F-35 or better weapons capabilities with F-22 or better radar cross-section.

In today's day and age of "push button warfare" and drones. With the trend being simplicity and focus of "how far away can I push a button and annihilate troop/piece of equipment/etc etc." I don't doubt the BVR only capability at all. Supermaneuverable aircraft are cool. But I fear this will be slowly phased out starting with the F-47. The confirmed Wingman drones will most likely deal with what will be considered close quarter's combat. If that would even happen.
I can absolutely agree with super maneuverability is a thing of the past, as would most others I would think. But I do feel having a level of fighter-like maneuverability is still necessary from a tactical standpoint.

Operating in a HCE almost guarantees that you will have to react to evolving threats and scenarios. Tactically, it makes sense to be able to more quickly maneuver yourself into advantageous positions. And inevitably when you fired on (which is still a possibility even with a stealthy fighter like F-47 given the density of targets) you have a better chance at surviving if you can reposition, react, and evade quicker.

I don’t expect even F-16 levels of maneuverability, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it can compete at an F-18 level in regards to instantaneous G’s, sustained G’s, and turn rate at various points of the envelope.
 
Engine down-select for NGAP/NGAD before the start of Q2. More clues indicate it’s GE XA102. Do you guys know what engine the F-47 demonstrator was been flying with?
 
I can absolutely agree with super maneuverability is a thing of the past, as would most others I would think. But I do feel having a level of fighter-like maneuverability is still necessary from a tactical standpoint.

Operating in a HCE almost guarantees that you will have to react to evolving threats and scenarios. Tactically, it makes sense to be able to more quickly maneuver yourself into advantageous positions. And inevitably when you fired on (which is still a possibility even with a stealthy fighter like F-47 given the density of targets) you have a better chance at surviving if you can reposition, react, and evade quicker.

I don’t expect even F-16 levels of maneuverability, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it can compete at an F-18 level in regards to instantaneous G’s, sustained G’s, and turn rate at various points of the envelope.
I was expecting closer to F-15 maneuverability, but definitely not F-22 levels.
 
I was expecting closer to F-15 maneuverability, but definitely not F-22 levels.
Right, not F-22. Like I said I would anticipate F-18 (or F-15 levels as you said). Really depends on what they found to be the most effective in early ops analysis runs. Both have different strengths in their respective envelopes. I could imagine F-15 acceleration would also be highly desirable for the same reasons I mentioned earlier
 
Pure speculation on this part but, I suspect the F-47 may be more akin to an F-14 Tomcat/bombcat; a multirole fighter/bomb hotrod. The F-47 should likely be accompanied by CCAs - making traditional dogfighting a thing of the past. I also would still expect to see thrust vectoring for different reasons from the F-22 if the go full tailless like many of the renders. In addition to that, the 2D vector nozzle possibly offers lower RCS return.
 
Pure speculation on this part but, I suspect the F-47 may be more akin to an F-14 Tomcat/bombcat; a multirole fighter/bomb hotrod. The F-47 should likely be accompanied by CCAs - making traditional dogfighting a thing of the past. I also would still expect to see thrust vectoring for different reasons from the F-22 if the go full tailless like many of the renders. In addition to that, the 2D vector nozzle possibly offers lower RCS return.
Why should it focused on bombing when this mission profile can be more easily shoved onto the CCAs, which are in their current form at an inherent disadvantage in air warfare. If anything it's reasonable to assume that direct strike gets sourced out towards low observable or expendable CCAs while the F-47 reserves long range air warfare for itself.
 
Why should it focused on bombing when this mission profile can be more easily shoved onto the CCAs, which are in their current form at an inherent disadvantage in air warfare. If anything it's reasonable to assume that direct strike gets sourced out towards low observable or expendable CCAs while the F-47 reserves long range air warfare for itself.
The USAF has made no mention of attack CCAs in their planning.
 
The USAF has made no mention of attack CCAs in their planning.
Commentators have expressed CCAs might be: isr, ew, bomb truck and finally forward decoy ie likely counter-air.. some one could update us.
 
Within the wider framework of NGAD, the CCAs (in essence just highly networked unmanned platforms) can be anything the USAF wants them to be. And all the big and small aerospace contractors will commit to the whims of the AF as they all want their piece of big CCA pie.
 
So, given that the DOD wants penetrating counterair to be successful in a modern IADS environment, that points to heavy EW. I wonder how much of the EW load the NGAD will carry vs EW CCAs. That kind of warfare requires some powerful engines in a heavily networked anti-air environment like the SCS.
 

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