Sukhoi Su-57 flight testing and development

tass.com

India, Russia may start fifth-generation fighter development by 2030 â official

The sides are also discussing the expansion of the licensed production of the Su-30MKI fighter aircraft and their modernization
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India, Russia may start fifth-generation fighter development by 2030 — official​

The sides are also discussing the expansion of the licensed production of the Su-30MKI fighter aircraft and their modernization

NEW DELHI, December 3. /TASS/. The joint development of a fifth-generation fighter may become a new area of cooperation between Russia and India for the period until 2030, Director of the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) Dmitry Shugayev told TASS ahead of the Russian-Indian summit in New Delhi.
"The main areas of cooperation until 2030 could be cooperation in combat aviation - expanding the licensed production of the Su-30MKI fighter aircraft and their modernization, as well as the joint development of a fifth-generation fighter," he said. In addition, Russia and India, as part of their long-term partnership through 2030, may develop military-technical cooperation on modern air defense systems, unmanned aircraft, and joint production of modern air-launched weapons. This includes cooperation in the sphere of ground forces, specifically the modernization of previously supplied equipment, joint development of an advanced tank and combat vehicle, as well as naval technology, such as technical assistance in ship construction and maintenance, the FSMTC director added.
Indian media previously reported that the Indian Air Force is considering purchasing Russia’s Su-57 fifth-generation fighters, as well as prospects for their domestic production. The Su-57 is the only fifth-generation fighter in the world that has proven its effectiveness in combat against Western air defense systems. The aircraft is capable of using a wide range of precision-guided weapons and has stealth characteristics. In February 2025, the Su-57E fighter jet was presented at the Aero India aerospace and defense exhibition where it performed demonstration flights.
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Knowing the indians, they probably gonna bring that proposal to the trump and asked for f-35 at discounted rate and some workshare. india's potential 5th gen adversaries are chinese. russia is at war and increasingly more desperate for china's support. russian advertisement already said unrestricted access to their fighters technology sharing for the indians if india buys su-57. what would stop them doin the same if the chinese come asking for rcs measurements to tweak their radars against indian su-57?
 
Null said:
tass.com

India, Russia may start fifth-generation fighter development by 2030 â official

The sides are also discussing the expansion of the licensed production of the Su-30MKI fighter aircraft and their modernization
tass.com tass.com

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I think the Indians are legitimately back on the table now, but that doesn't necessarily mean the sale will be finalized. I also haven't seen any Western sale to India with more substance in terms of accessibility and tech transfer than the MKI-deal (pre-21st century doesn't count).

While the MKIs are set to undergo an MLU soon and continue their service, what better way to replace Russian heavy fighters than with newer Russian models? I also don't buy into the Su-57 inferiority crap. Yes, it's prominently designed for the 00-10 era and was late to enter service; yes, it has a larger RCS than the J-20, J-35, F-35, etc., but it also comes with its own unique set of somewhat-balancing capabilities (tandem bays, more RF sensors, DIRCM, etc.). It's also set to receive other improvements, including a new engine, with the M upgrade.
 
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It's not about inferiority of aircraft. it's politics and potential adversary 5th gen threats against India, which is the Chinese. The chance of Chinese getting access to the su57M is much higher than the Chinese getting access to block 4 f-35.

With that being said, that didn't stop other nations on unfriendly terms buying weapons from the same country before. It really comes down to the workshare (priority #1) and if the Americans still hesitant about having a nation flying both f-35 and operating russian SAM at the same time. The complete crap mess of American domestic politics and therefore incoherent and unpredictable foreign policies would also be a huge negative.
 
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snne said:
eS5naWY.gif


I think the Indians are legitimately back on the table now, but that doesn't necessarily mean the sale will be finalized. I also haven't seen any Western sale to India with more substance in terms of accessibility and tech transfer than the MKI-deal (pre-21st century doesn't count).

While the MKIs are set to undergo an MLU soon and continue their service, what better way to replace Russian heavy fighters than with newer Russian models? I also don't buy into the Su-57 inferiority crap. Yes, it's prominently designed for the 00-10 era and was late to enter service; yes, it has a larger RCS than the J-20, J-35, F-35, etc., but it also comes with its own unique set of somewhat-balancing capabilities (tandem bays, more RF sensors, DIRCM, etc.). It's also set to receive other improvements, including a new engine, with the M upgrade.
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The magic word is once again "may".

As such ... IMO NEVER!
 
An area where the interests of Russia and India may actually meet after 2030 and result in joint development is carrier-based combat aircraft.
Russia's intentions remain publicly unknown, but if it leans towards building new carriers, which is quite likely, the only real possibility for implementation is the proposals strongly promoted by NDB in recent years, because they do not require the construction of new infrastructure.
They are however very compact and the use of the naval modification of the Su-57 (which is practically unfeasible in itself) is unlikely to be possible.
Similarly, the carrier-based version of the Su-75 is unlikely to be adopted due to its single-engine layout and strike role with insufficient capabilities to defend the submarine fleet from air attack.
Similarly India will need a new fighter for its small carriers, and an archaic concept called TEDBF, copying the aerodynamics of the Rafale, is being received quite lukewarmly.
 
Geo said:
An area where the interests of Russia and India may actually meet after 2030 and result in joint development is carrier-based combat aircraft.
Russia's intentions remain publicly unknown, but if it leans towards building new carriers, which is quite likely, the only real possibility for implementation is the proposals strongly promoted by NDB in recent years, because they do not require the construction of new infrastructure.
They are however very compact and the use of the naval modification of the Su-57 (which is practically unfeasible in itself) is unlikely to be possible.
Similarly, the carrier-based version of the Su-75 is unlikely to be adopted due to its single-engine layout and strike role with insufficient capabilities to defend the submarine fleet from air attack.
Similarly India will need a new fighter for its small carriers, and an archaic concept called TEDBF, copying the aerodynamics of the Rafale, is being received quite lukewarmly.
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That however would mean, Russia has plans and the money for a next generation aircraft carrier! I don't see this actually.
And for India's own claims & plans ... we all know, the TDEBF is a joke.
 
Deino said:
That however would mean, Russia has plans and the money for a next generation aircraft carrier! I don't see this actually.
And for India's own claims & plans ... we all know, the TDEBF is a joke.
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Russia could intend to finance that carrier with Russian Frozen assets in Brussels... Oh, wait :rolleyes:
 
Deino said:
That however would mean, Russia has plans and the money for a next generation aircraft carrier! I don't see this actually.
And for India's own claims & plans ... we all know, the TDEBF is a joke.
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Agree.
I don't understand why India seems developping 2 aicraft in the same weight league, one for air force, one for navy, so different !

As TEDBF is in fact a copy to a slightly bigger scale of Rafale, it's a no way specially once Rafale M is purchased, and maybe an assembly line built in India. As soon India Navy will have tried Rafale M, they will never wait the end of developpment and maturity phase of another so similar jet. Never.
 
Squirrel said:
Su-57E will be presented on the EDEX 2025 ,Cairo Egypt.

"Рособоронэкспорт" представит на EDEX 2025 в Каире Су-57Э
tass.ru

"Рособоронэкспорт" представит на EDEX 2025 в Каире Су-57Э

Также компания представит боевой разведывательно-ударный вертолет Ка-52
tass.ru tass.ru
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The Egyptian military running the Egyptian government is practically nothing without the U.S. support, so why even bother? I mean, MiG-29 orders before the CAATSA is one thing, but sending an Su-57 in this political climate is a whole other thing...
 
donnage99 said:
It's not about inferiority of aircraft. it's politics and potential adversary 5th gen threats against India, which is the Chinese. The chance of Chinese getting access to the su57M is much higher than the Chinese getting access to block 4 f-35.

With that being said, that didn't stop other nations on unfriendly terms buying weapons from the same country before. It really comes down to the workshare (priority #1) and if the Americans still hesitant about having a nation flying both f-35 and operating russian SAM at the same time. The complete crap mess of American domestic politics and therefore incoherent and unpredictable foreign policies would also be a huge negative.
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Russia sells their gear to India, China sells theirs to Pakistan - they fight each other, and the respective manufacturing nations get combat data and clout if their system happens to be better, and best of all the buying countries pay for it.
 
Elysium said:
Russia sells their gear to India, China sells theirs to Pakistan - they fight each other, and the respective manufacturing nations get combat data and clout if their system happens to be better, and best of all the buying countries pay for it.
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India also has a border dispute with China. Also, Russia has pitched the su57 to China before. If India ever buys su57 any responsible Chinese generals in charge of the lives of his pilots would pick up the phone and call the russians to pay for a few documents
 
Quite Deino, China could have done what they did with the Su-30MKI and bought the Su-57 but I think that the PLAAF were wise not to buy the Su-57 and went on and designed the J-20 instead.
 
From Sergey Chemezov ,Rostec officially offered to India licence production of the Su-57E. Answer was ,''we will think about that'' .

From 4:40 min...

www.1tv.ru

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www.1tv.ru www.1tv.ru


«Мы предложения свои направили… [по] Су-57. В том числе и производить здесь, с локализацией. Они сказали: «Подумаем», – заявил Чемезов.''

"We submitted our proposals... [regarding] the Su-57. Including local production. They said, 'We'll think about it,'" Chemezov said.

www1.ru

«Сказали — „Подумаем“»: в Индии рассматривают вопрос о локализации Су-57

Российские истребители пятого поколения могут производить на территории страны-партнёра
www1.ru www1.ru
 
Obviously the HAL AMCA is years from getting built so India has decided to go ahead and purchase and license build the Su-57E which would be a smart move.
 
Sukhoi engineer saying the dual seater is flying early next year, he had previously disavowed the publications assuming that test pilot Bogdan was talking about the Su-75 in his interview at Dubai Air Show when he said that there was a surprise for early next year, perhaps that's what Bogdan was talking about
 

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Maiden flight with Izd.177
t.me

ПАО «ОАК»

⚡️Самолет Су-57 впервые поднялся в небо с перспективным двигателем пятого поколения «изделие 177» Специалисты Объединенной авиастроительной корпорации и Объединенной двигателестроительной корпорации (входят в Госкорпорацию Ростех) приступили к летным испытаниям двигателя «изделие 177» в...
t.me t.me
 
Where is product 30? Are they planning to equip stage 2 with the 177?
 
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Nx4eu said:
Where is product 30? Are they planning to equip stage 2 with the 177?
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Flying separately, no, two different engines.
Tbh, younger brother(177) seems to be far more impactful, as it promises lots of plug in power (thrust, electric) for all al-31f, 41(117) and maybe even ws-10 users all over the world. Maybe that's why they unweiled it in Zhuhai in the first place - while in general China is past the stage where it did significant Russian aerospace procurement, this case looks damn attractive.
 
This is just a speculation - the same one I shared about why I think the WS-15 might not be a popular upgrade to the WS-10.
I think the next gen Russian engines (like the Chinese ones) went down the route of the F-119, as in they built a physically larger core which allows for less bypass in the same diameter. Despite the improved specs of these engines, die to lower bypass, these are less efficient(SFC) in the subsonic/transonic region than their predecessors (just like how the F119 is less efficient than the F110).

The properties of better supercruise performance, and higher altitude behavior are not sufficient improvements to justify the downsides.
The solution here is increasing the bypass ratio, just like the F135 did, bringing it back to the sweet spot. However this results in a larger diameter which doesn't fit into existing airframes.

So I speculated there's going to be either a redesign or completely new derivative on the Russian side with larger diameter engines, and on the Chinese side, the J-20s will be largely stuck on WS-10 (maybe there'll be a small production run with WS-15), and next-gen engines will go into their 6th gen planes.
 

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