Want to work in defense

stever_sl said:
The weird thing about ITAR is that basically the State Department relies on the companies to police themselves. If you want to get a ruling from State, there's a process, but it's cumbersome and awkward. And of course the guidelines are a bit murky to begin with.
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Which forces everyone to be even more restrictive/cautious over offshoring work. Working as designed?
 
galgot said:
I do remember meeting some kinda of typical Soylent Green HR manager , telling "you know I'm here for the good of the employees..."
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That is absolutely bullshit.

After the Navy, I ended up with an HR degree.

HR's purpose is to prevent the company from getting sued because an idiot manager did something illegal.
 
Just as long as folks realize that in a nation like the USA, as opposed to say New Zealand or Switzerland, you never really work in "Defense", but in "Offense" - one of the very few *EXTREMELY* correct and honest things Trump has done is to rebrand the DOD as the Department of War...
 
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Scott Kenny said:
HR's purpose is to prevent the company from getting sued because an idiot manager did something illegal.
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Effective HR managers will do far more than that, I have dealt with some excellent ones who made the company a better place to work in.
Idiot managers are a different problem, they should be demoted to the last job they were good at or sacked.
Unfortunately, once somebody has risen high enough, the only way to fall is up.
 
Arjen said:
Effective HR managers will do far more than that, I have dealt with some excellent ones who made the company a better place to work in.
Idiot managers are a different problem, they should be demoted to the last job they were good at or sacked.
Unfortunately, once somebody has risen high enough, the only way to fall is up.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle
 
DWG said:
Which forces everyone to be even more restrictive/cautious over offshoring work. Working as designed?
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The Dept. of Commerce, who have been grabbing turf off the State Department since the 1980s and are responsible in part for the current technology control regime, are a major complicating factor as well. But, as GTX says, let's get back to the topic at hand.
 
publiusr said:
I thought it was for Soccer Moms to play god
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No, that's an HOA board for that.



Arjen said:
Effective HR managers will do far more than that, I have dealt with some excellent ones who made the company a better place to work in.
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You're not wrong, but the primary purpose of HR is to prevent the company from getting sued.


=========================================

Now, back on topic.

Clearances.
Defense work is almost always going to require a clearance. Thankfully, it's no longer a paper form. However, you will need some person to be a reference for every single place you have lived for more than 30 days.

Collect all this information ahead of time. Address where you lived, reference, reference's phone number and email. And warn your references, because they WILL be getting a visit from an investigator. The meeting won't take more than about 15minutes, but they will contact everyone. They reached out to my 3rd grade teacher, for example.
 
Scott Kenny said:
They reached out to my 3rd grade teacher, for example.
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Wow.

I used to have an old late 70's yellow, four-door Mercury. Towed off because it was not running correctly. Not long after, I see what looked just like it described as Timothy McVeigh's vehicle:
https://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/proje...ach of Timothy McVeigh's 1977 Mercury Marquis
We used to have the FBI in Birmingham's 2121 building, where a young female agent punched in a button code--then turned and gasped thinking I was watching the pad.

I wonder how many folks that alone attracted.
 
To get back on track, to me the bottom line is, if you intellectually, spiritually(?), truly, feel you want to work in *ACTUAL DEFENSE*, rather than in any more or less disguised aggressive *OFFENSE*, you are literally doing humanity's work, as long as you remember, homo homini lupus...
 
Reddington777 said:
Yeah. I still can't believe I got the offer but apparently it's happening.
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Congrats.

To be honest, I envy you people in the US. From what I know, American companies are very pragmatic. Here in Germany, you need to provide a million cerrificates and a gazillion years pf work experience to get started but when it to actual work, it‘s another story. A typical work day here is 4 hours of meeting, 2 hours of chit chat and 2 hours of actual work….
 
uguduwa said:
Congrats.

To be honest, I envy you people in the US. From what I know, American companies are very pragmatic. Here in Germany, you need to provide a million cerrificates and a gazillion years pf work experience to get started but when it to actual work, it‘s another story. A typical work day here is 4 hours of meeting, 2 hours of chit chat and 2 hours of actual work….
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Meetings do take up a lot of time, true. But chit chat not so much, at least not in every department. Coordination of teams and different departments, depending on your position, becomes a time consuming undertaking though.
 
Reddington777 said:
@martinbayer @tychosis

Thanks for the encouragement. I got my in and will be moving soon for my dream job.

Feels nice to be able to contribute more than fanart to the aerospace industry.
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Congratulations! All I can recommend is that you keep your eyes and ears open and absorb everything you can--it can be a little intimidating and overwhelming at first.

I always tell people when they come in that what we do is pretty niche and no one expects you to hit the ground running on day 1--really I just want to see tenacity and genuine interest. We can teach you to do your job well... we can't teach you to be genuinely interested in a way that proves useful.
 
Reddington777 said:
@martinbayer @tychosis

Thanks for the encouragement. I got my in and will be moving soon for my dream job.

Feels nice to be able to contribute more than fanart to the aerospace industry.
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Congratulations!

Now to enjoy the SF86 background investigation paperwork... In all seriousness, keep a paper copy of all that somewhere you can find it again, so you have a record for your renewals.
 
uguduwa said:
Congrats.

To be honest, I envy you people in the US. From what I know, American companies are very pragmatic.
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Yeah my interview was in hindsight quite pragmatic. Not too in the weeds of technical stuff, and quite a bit in terms of working together and working well with others.

I despise useless meetings and at least at the job Im leaving, the sentiment was shared. Though this job is would think works pretty closely with users so I expect a lot of user requirements gathering meeting.

tychosis said:
Congratulations! All I can recommend is that you keep your eyes and ears open and absorb everything you can--it can be a little intimidating and overwhelming at first.

I always tell people when they come in that what we do is pretty niche and no one expects you to hit the ground running on day 1--really I just want to see tenacity and genuine interest. We can teach you to do your job well... we can't teach you to be genuinely interested in a way that proves useful.
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Thanks for this. I cant wait for my first day on the job. The position is at the sweet spot of my background and my interests.
Scott Kenny said:
Congratulations!

Now to enjoy the SF86 background investigation paperwork... In all seriousness, keep a paper copy of all that somewhere you can find it again, so you have a record for your renewals.
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Yeah thats the next thing im worried about. And noted. I plan on staying in this field for a long long time if all goes well :D
 
Reddington777 said:
Yeah thats the next thing im worried about. And noted. I plan on staying in this field for a long long time if all goes well :D
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Also, once you get all that stuff put together for your first clearance package, KEEP IT UPDATED. Move somewhere? Record the address in that paperwork and make a note of a reference person who knows you at that location.

Beats the hell out of trying to google maps your old addresses or whatever!
 
Scott Kenny said:
Also, once you get all that stuff put together for your first clearance package, KEEP IT UPDATED. Move somewhere? Record the address in that paperwork and make a note of a reference person who knows you at that location.

Beats the hell out of trying to google maps your old addresses or whatever!
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Yeah Ive been having a hell of a time looking for the documents for my past residences. One of thems been completely demolished lol. The entire address doesnt even exist anymore. And finding people for references when you never go outside or touch grass? Too hard
 
uguduwa said:
Congrats.

To be honest, I envy you people in the US. From what I know, American companies are very pragmatic. Here in Germany, you need to provide a million cerrificates and a gazillion years pf work experience to get started but when it to actual work, it‘s another story. A typical work day here is 4 hours of meeting, 2 hours of chit chat and 2 hours of actual work….
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As a German Luft- und Raumfahrt Dipl.-Ing. (I know we Diplomingenieure are a dying breed, because even Germany started to pray at the wretched near global altar of bachelor and master degrees - I'm glad I've not paid German taxes since 1998) working in the USA after having spent over a decade in the German aerospace industry, I can tell you that your productivity experience is at least bicontinental, if not universal.
 
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tychosis said:
I sometimes think recruiters do students a disservice by showing them all sorts of cool shit
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96% of engineers in this field will never do anything cool at work. Instead, the golden children will get the plum assignments while everyone else sits at cubicles in windowless buildings, sending emails and making teams calls and rarely (if ever) seeing hardware. But that doesn't matter; being in the office is what matters to upper management. Presence = work!

Co-ops and internships are great for getting experience to land a job, but they are bait and switch exercises and your "real" job will not be anywhere near as exciting.
martinbayer said:
I can tell you that your productivity experience is at least bicontinental, if not universal.
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Agreed. Most time is spent in unproductive meetings or completing non-productive busywork for compliance, HR, or make-management-feel-good reasons.


I'm five months into working in defense. The experience has been terrible. I thought my old civil aerospace employer was bad; they are freaking SpaceX by comparison.



My advice at this point is to stay far, far away from any government or defense contractor, and only go into aerospace as a whole if you're prepared to be a whore with no roots and move wherever the jobs are. The only benefit is that thanks to security/ITAR/proprietary concerns, AI is making slower penetration into this field than others.

Instead, if you have no morals, go into finance and get it while you can. If you do have any, find the most AI-resistant trade or industry you can. If I could figure out how to make it work financially, I'd become a plumber.
 
gtg947h said:
96% of engineers in this field will never do anything cool at work. Instead, the golden children will get the plum assignments while everyone else sits at cubicles in windowless buildings, sending emails and making teams calls and rarely (if ever) seeing hardware. But that doesn't matter; being in the office is what matters to upper management. Presence = work!
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Damn, that's... bleak, and harsh.
 
gtg947h said:
everyone else sits at cubicles in windowless buildings, sending emails and making teams calls and rarely (if ever) seeing hardware.
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Maybe it'll change once I start, but I'm generally content with software stuff. I can spend the rest of my off time sitting near the airfield doing plane spotting lol.
gtg947h said:
whore with no roots
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Yup that's me. Straight up told the recruiter I'll go wherever the job takes me and take whatever they pay me.
gtg947h said:
Instead, if you have no morals, go into finance and get it while you can
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Can confirm. I've got a sibling in finance who indeed doesn't have morals (just kidding if you happen to see this) or else they wouldn't be slaving away on wall street.

Yeah. I don't appreciate the finance bro energy much. Was told by everyone to go into finance. I tried ... I just couldn't stand it. Engineers have big egos too, but at least it's a little more subtle.

Worst case scenario, I will go start a taco truck and sell bad tacos to nice caucasian people :D
 
Damn - I thought I was a master pessimist, but the assessments above only increase my determination to retire at the end of May...
 

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