Chinese new SSN: Improved 093 & 095 & The next-gen

Looking at the photos above it does not look as long as western subs are especially the Trident 2 subs of the US and Royal Navy, is that what the PLAN were wanting or is that just one step onto a bigger SSBN?
 
Thanks Rumil, it is so easy to get mixed up with the PLAN submarines, now I know what is what.
 
It seems 095 will be using a 38MWe turbo-generator set as Bohai has recently procured two of these likely for the 3rd and 4th boat of the class. This should give 095 comparable power to Seawolf(33.5MW-38.8MW) and Yasen-M(37MW) albeit 095 will be using turbo-electric propulsion instead of mechanical.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Immediately forward of the rudder, the OML "scoops" up to the line of the ship.

Instead of smoothly tapering down like the Astute or Ohio do.
Click to expand...

The original basis of the comparison was the "turtleback" which I presumed meant the missile compartment on Delta III/IV, which 09IIIB definitely lacks in a similar manner.
If one was comparing the 09IV then that would be much more reasonable, but resemblance to 09IIIB on that basis is unconvincing at best.
 
Blitzo said:
The original basis of the comparison was the "turtleback" which I presumed meant the missile compartment on Delta III/IV, which 09IIIB definitely lacks in a similar manner.
If one was comparing the 09IV then that would be much more reasonable, but resemblance to 09IIIB on that basis is unconvincing at best.
Click to expand...
Refers to the freeflooding area fairing above a pressure hull.

And that shape is very weird on the 093B.
 
Hull talk about 093 always makes me wonder if we can be absolutely positively be certain it is in fact a true double hull design as it is usually described? Or is it some sort of a hybrid design or is there even a chance it is a single hull design. sadly, there doesn't seem to be a way to tell from the exterior look of the submarine alone, its shape, limber holes etc. Sail shape used is usually associated with single hulls but even that is, in the end, not necessarily proof. I guess the biggest indication (but not proof) it's double hulled is submarine's dimensions, width and length, coupled with the role and vintage. And i guess 9 meter diameter rings observed at submarine shipyard are another indication, but also inconclusive.
 
Last edited:
Tomboy said:
It seems 095 will be using a 38MWe turbo-generator set as Bohai has recently procured two of these likely for the 3rd and 4th boat of the class. This should give 095 comparable power to Seawolf(33.5MW-38.8MW) and Yasen-M(37MW) albeit 095 will be using turbo-electric propulsion instead of mechanical.
Click to expand...
Remember that you also need to assume around 5-10MW for ship systems that can't go to propulsion.



totoro said:
Hull talk about 093 always makes me wonder if we can be absolutely positively be certain it is in fact a true double hull design as it is usually described? Or is it some sort of a hybrid design or is there even a chance it is a single hull design. sadly, there doesn't seem to be a way to tell from the exterior look of the submarine alone, its shape, limber holes etc. Sail shape used is usually associated with single hulls but even that is, in the end, not necessarily proof. I guess the biggest indication (but not proof) it's double hulled is submarine's dimensions, width and length, coupled with the role and vintage. And i guess 9 meter diameter rings observed at submarine shipyard are another indication, but also inconclusive.
Click to expand...
If it has limber holes on the outer casing it's a double hull.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Remember that you also need to assume around 5-10MW for ship systems that can't go to propulsion.




If it has limber holes on the outer casing it's a double hull.
Click to expand...
But French and British subs also often have more or less prounced limber hole lines along their sides. And they are usually described as single hulls with upper floodable superstructure. (So i guess not pure single hull designs) By that logic how can one be sure that 093, for example, is also not a single hull design with a floodable superstrucutre, just by looking at the limber hole argument?
 
Not sure if the article above is basing their estimate of 7th and 8th 094 subs solely on the fact they photographed 6 between January 13th and 28th? That gives 15 days - more than enough for a sub to sail from Huludao to Hainan. (average speed under 5 knots) Let alone to Dalian (where one 094 sub was also spotted)
 
Interestingly China launched 5 SSNs totaling nearly 50,000t in displacement in ~6 months from the start of this year. If previous build schedule is to be believed there should be another ~2 launches expected later this year for a total of 7 SSNs.

AFAIK the current list of launched submarines this year is:
2 * 09IIIB
1 * 09V
1 * 09X (JN sailless SSN)
1 * Huludao mystery submarine

Theoretically we could still be expecting up to one additional 09IIIBs this year and possibly the second 09V.

On the conventional side it becomes a lot more quiet, AFAIK not a single boat was launched this year but there was very recently a delivery of a 039C but probably was launched a while back. They are still seemingly building some SSKs but basically just to replace some older boats instead of expanding the fleet size. As for the Type 041 "SSK-N", the chances are it's been cancelled, procurement tenders for additional boats never materialised at Wuchang despite many rumors over the years and the many tenders found for a nuclear boat at JN shipyard turned out to be 09X instead of the lead boat of JN's Type 041 as originally expected.
 
New SSN (That "Sailless" one)
 

Attachments

  • 9f519e8bgy1ieqq54j54nj21be0zj4av.jpg
    9f519e8bgy1ieqq54j54nj21be0zj4av.jpg
    455.1 KB · Views: 69
  • HMJIXv2b0AAmgb0.jpg
    HMJIXv2b0AAmgb0.jpg
    1.4 MB · Views: 70
  • HMJIXCdawAACgHd.jpg
    HMJIXCdawAACgHd.jpg
    3.1 MB · Views: 63
Last edited:
Tomboy said:
It seems 095 will be using a 38MWe turbo-generator set as Bohai has recently procured two of these likely for the 3rd and 4th boat of the class. This should give 095 comparable power to Seawolf(33.5MW-38.8MW) and Yasen-M(37MW) albeit 095 will be using turbo-electric propulsion instead of mechanical.
Click to expand...

Tomboy said:
They have another generator for that, AFAIK the ship has a 38MW motor
Click to expand...

Makes sense...an overall electric output of ~50 MWe is respectable for a ~10,000T boat.

At a 30% efficiency rate (which I reckon is more than generous for a submarine with limited space as opposed to an NPP), the 095's PWR could be estimated as having a ~170 MW thermal output or thereabout.
 
Gessler said:
Makes sense...an overall electric output of ~50 MWe is respectable for a ~10,000T boat.

At a 30% efficiency rate (which I reckon is more than generous for a submarine with limited space as opposed to an NPP), the 095's PWR could be estimated as having a ~170 MW thermal output or thereabout.
Click to expand...
And that roughly checks with both Ohio and Seawolf plants.
 
HNb5JUdbEAArQ6h.jpg HNbvibJbUAAsEg0.jpg

New SSN docked next to the lead boat of 09V class, interestly the weird trimarian submarine thingy is also docked in the same bay along with a 09IV SSBN.

This picture makes it pretty clear it's still conventionally sailed even if the sail probably is one of the smallest with regards to SSNs (the adjacent 09V also seems to have a similarly small sail, seems like China has ditched the Russian style sails for American like thin foil designs) but IMO doesn't seem to be noticeably smaller than those on 774 class. Another thing to note is unlike the initial estimates this image clearly shows the new SSN is *atleast* as wide as the 09V at 12m in beam while being quite a bit longer. Also, noting the waterline which appears to be somewhat lower than the single hulled 09V along with two diameters of pressure hull spotted at JN where her sister ship was constructed likely points to it being hybrid hulled.
 
Tomboy said:
New SSN docked next to the lead boat of 09V class, interestly the weird trimarian submarine thingy is also docked in the same bay along with a 09IV SSBN.
Click to expand...
This is very obviously the 09VA variant which the insiders suggested to be in construction. They mentioned two 09V and one 09VA. But so far we haven't seen the second 09V, which gives me the impression that they mixed up 09V and 09VA in their podcast i.e only one 09V will be constructed rest will be 09VA.
 
Rumil said:
This is very obviously the 09VA variant which the insiders suggested to be in construction. They mentioned two 09V and one 09VA. But so far we haven't seen the second 09V, which gives me the impression that they mixed up 09V and 09VA in their podcast i.e only one 09V will be constructed rest will be 09VA.
Click to expand...
So a similar situation to Pr. 885 and 885M, i.e a very limited (in this case one-off) run before a major improvement constitutes the majority of the class?
 
EmoBirb said:
So a similar situation to Pr. 885 and 885M, i.e a very limited (in this case one-off) run before a major improvement constitutes the majority of the class?
Click to expand...
With that, wasn't the big reason a decade between the lead boat and the rest of the class?

It's really unusual to do major design changes after one boat, something has to have gone very very wrong (Thresher/Permit class, for example).
 
Scott Kenny said:
With that, wasn't the big reason a decade between the lead boat and the rest of the class?

It's really unusual to do major design changes after one boat, something has to have gone very very wrong (Thresher/Permit class, for example).
Click to expand...
09V was allegedly stalled for quite a while during construction, it could be possible 09VA progressed fast enough by incorporating design changes learned from building 09V that would've made manufacturing easier or cheaper along with some new technology like the rumored active magnetic rafting. Both likely shares the same powerplant system which probably also cuts down on costs and time and possibly some other combat systems like sonar.
 
Sounds somewhat reasonable, like how the 003 was changed from a steam catapult to an electromagnetic one. If technology advances fast enough, it could also disrupt the original design plans. Compared to other areas in China, nuclear submarines seem like they've been stuck for over a decade.
 
EmoBirb said:
So a similar situation to Pr. 885 and 885M, i.e a very limited (in this case one-off) run before a major improvement constitutes the majority of the class?
Click to expand...
Perfect analogy I must say.
09V apparently took too long from design to construction. If there was going to be a delay, the 701st might as well make some necessary improvements in the meantime.

A Chinese blogger/insider has now confirmed they all belongs to Type 09V class. The longer ones must be 09VA.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom