Taiho and Shokaku’s value in jet age?

[a_midshipman_apprentice]

Let’s discuss on a pure technical and engineering feasibility perspective. How practical is a jet age upgrade it can be for these two classes of best IJN aircraft carriers and what might be the possible capacity in the 50s or 60s?

 

[CV12Hornet]

Oh, it's certainly possible, but it would be expensive and time-consuming. The maximalist proposal would be for something akin to the planned Implacable rebuilds: steam cats, angled deck, mirrored landing sights, larger lifts, general new armament and refurbished systems, and most importantly, consolidation of the two hangar decks into one larger one plus a gallery deck on the Shokakus and probably another deck lower down in Taiho.

The Shokakus I expect would turn out similar the SCB-27C Essexes; Taiho you could probably get closer to the Audacious-class in capability.

 

[Dilandu]

Let’s discuss on a pure technical and engineering feasibility perspective. How practical is a jet age upgrade it can be for these two classes of best IJN aircraft carriers and what might be the possible capacity in the 50s or 60s?

Well, the Taiho was almost as big as Essex-class (and longer than Implacable-class) so her modernization for jet planes was definitedly possible. She would likely require similar hangar reconstruction as British carriers post-war; combining her two hangars into single big one.

 

[lancer21]

While at it, might add the Unryus too, they'd be no worse than the RN Colossus/Majestics, many of which had very long lives after the war.

 

[Dilandu]

While at it, might add the Unryus too, they'd be no worse than the RN Colossus/Majestics, many of which had very long lives after the war.

Maybe even a bit better - Unryu were longer and faster.

 

[CV12Hornet]

The closest equivalent to an Unryu is probably a Centaur, which should give a clear picture of how far those could be pushed.

 

[Dilandu]

The closest equivalent to an Unryu is probably a Centaur, which should give a clear picture of how far those could be pushed.

Hm, not exactly - Unryu is a bit narrower. While it allows he to have six knots greater speed, it's also limit her modernization potential.

 

[Archibald]

Going to the steep logical end of this what if - how about Shinano ? (if it wasn't sunk of course !) I know, battleship hulls sucks for aircraft carriers. Still, Shinano hull is from the biggest battleship ever built, so plenty of volume.

 

[Dilandu]

Going to the steep logical end of this what if - how about Shinano ? (if it wasn't sunk of course !) I know, battleship hulls sucks for aircraft carriers. Still, Shinano hull is from the biggest battleship ever built, so plenty of volume

Likely scrapped after the war; while she was big, her aircraft carrying capacity was actually not good, and her heavy deck armor would made it utter pain to seriously modernize her.

 

[Archibald]

Dang. Another unfortunate battleship legacy - how surprising.

 

[EwenS]

You will find details of Shinano on this thread

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/shinano-aircraft-carrier-conversion.33281/

 

[CV12Hornet]

Hm, not exactly - Unryu is a bit narrower. While it allows he to have six knots greater speed, it's also limit her modernization potential.

While true, AFAIK the Centaurs were never bulged, likely because their speed was marginal to begin with - hence all the handwringing over Hermes' weight gain during her redesign. Any deep Unryu modernization would probably include bulges anyway, so I don't think their as-designed beam is a major problem.

 

[Dilandu]

While true, AFAIK the Centaurs were never bulged, likely because their speed was marginal to begin with - hence all the handwringing over Hermes' weight gain during her redesign. Any deep Unryu modernization would probably include bulges anyway, so I don't think their as-designed beam is a major problem.

Hm, weren't bulges coming out of fashion for post-war era? Was any ship bulged during post-war refits? AFAIK, the advent of proximity fuzes for torpedoes reduced the practicality of bulges significantly, so post-war their installation fell out of favor.

 

[CV12Hornet]

Hm, weren't bulges coming out of fashion for post-war era? Was any ship bulged during post-war refits? AFAIK, the advent of proximity fuzes for torpedoes reduced the practicality of bulges significantly, so post-war their installation fell out of favor.

The Essexes, Victorious.

Generally, bulges postwar were for buoyancy, not torpedo defense.

 

[Dilandu]

The Essexes, Victorious.

I stand corrected then! Thank you for correcting my misconception.

 

[SSgtC]

Hm, weren't bulges coming out of fashion for post-war era? Was any ship bulged during post-war refits? AFAIK, the advent of proximity fuzes for torpedoes reduced the practicality of bulges significantly, so post-war their installation fell out of favor.

Not really. Both the Essex and Midway classes were bulged during their post war rebuilds. The Essex went from 93' as built to 103' after the SCB-27C modernization. (Waterline beam, flight deck beam went to 147'.) The Midway class were bulged a couple times, the first one more successful than the latter one

 

[a_midshipman_apprentice]

Oh, it's certainly possible, but it would be expensive and time-consuming. The maximalist proposal would be for something akin to the planned Implacable rebuilds: steam cats, angled deck, mirrored landing sights, larger lifts, general new armament and refurbished systems, and most importantly, consolidation of the two hangar decks into one larger one plus a gallery deck on the Shokakus and probably another deck lower down in Taiho.

The Shokakus I expect would turn out similar the SCB-27C Essexes; Taiho you could probably get closer to the Audacious-class in capability.

Shokaku has a bigger hanger space than Illustrious-class as well as a 32 meter longer hull. Which will make the refit easier I guess?

 

[a_midshipman_apprentice]

Maybe even a bit better - Unryu were longer and faster.

But construction qualities will be an concern

 

[Dilandu]

But construction qualities will be an concern

True; common problem for all emergency construction.

 

[Colonial-Marine]

Likely scrapped after the war; while she was big, her aircraft carrying capacity was actually not good, and her heavy deck armor would made it utter pain to seriously modernize her.

How feasible would it be to tear down everything above the main armored deck and then completing her as a Yamato class battleship as was her original design? It may not be the most practical investment, but would it be feasible to "un-convert" such a ship?

 

[EwenS]

How feasible would it be to tear down everything above the main armored deck and then completing her as a Yamato class battleship as was her original design? It may not be the most practical investment, but would it be feasible to "un-convert" such a ship?

Didn't prove economically viable at the end of WW1 with the incomplete HMS Eagle ex Chilean Admiral Cochrane.

 

[Dilandu]

How feasible would it be to tear down everything above the main armored deck and then completing her as a Yamato class battleship as was her original design? It may not be the most practical investment, but would it be feasible to "un-convert" such a ship?

Totally impractical. The second large-scale rebuild would likely weaken her hull too much to carry the planned weight as battleship.

 

[CV12Hornet]

Shokaku has a bigger hanger space than Illustrious-class as well as a 32 meter longer hull. Which will make the refit easier I guess?

Being bigger helps, yes. Having more steam output and the strength deck being the hangar deck contribute as well.