Kuznetsov: is this ship cursed?

Nicknick said:
If steel can bear the stresses for years, it can do so for decades and centuries as well. In many cases, steel rivets and screws in steel bridges and sometimes even steel ships work for more than 100 years, despite being under a high strain.

In a drydock, you don't even have load fluctuations which eliminates any fatigue stresses.
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Yet none of the museum ship-owners like leaving a ship on the blocks. Neither Texas nor Iowa had anything good to say about the possibility of leaving the ship permanently drydocked.
 
Even the Cutty Sark with her wooden hull is permanently dry docked in a museum. Despite this is done in an aesthetic manner, it is a bit odd. Ships don't really look like they should when being dry docked, this is surly one reason why many museum don't like it. Not to forget the high cost for keeping a ship like the Iowa in a dry dock.
 
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A ship is designed to have her hull supported at all points by the water. Having part of it be cantilevered over a gap is a deviant condition (sagging or hogging, depending where the force is applied) which has to be allowed for in the design stage but is assumed to be a temporary condition. The construction is not the same as for a bridge, it is not going to respond in the same way, and this is why it is not healthy to leave a ship (especially a big one) on the blocks indefinitely.

It's also the reason they launch the hull before they fit in a bunch of the heavy things - so that it's supported at all points along its length.
 
I would think putting columns of brick top to bottom might help with that.

A good location might be a shaved off seamount allowing a quick and dirty base.
 
https://nationalsecurityjournal.org/russias-admiral-kuznetsov-aircraft-carrier-summed-up-in-4-words/
"although RuMoD and the Russian Navy’s Main Command did not officially confirm the decision to scrap the carrier, there is a growing sentiment within the Russian naval community that continuing to pour precious resources into the ship is a significant waste of rubles.

Moreover, Russian naval experts are divided on whether an aircraft carrier is even relevant to the Russian military at this time. The money might be better spent on smaller, automated weapons systems."

"An additional indication of the proverbial writing on the wall for the carrier was revealed in September 2024: at least some of her 1,500-person crew were yanked from the vessel and reassigned to a Russian Army unit—a so-called “frigate” mechanized battalion within the 1st Guards Tank Army—so they could fight and die in Ukraine instead. "

Considering that the crew was already since months reassigned it is to believe that the writing on the wall for the ship is there since almost one year. It just appeared now in the focus of the public interest.
 
paralay said:
The Russians are doing much better with nuclear power plants than with the last generation of Soviet boilers.
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Yes, they've done pretty well, especially with the non-Soviet designs/builds.


paralay said:
It is difficult to teach a former shepherd how to work with radio electronics. Therefore, the rest of the units (navigators, signalmen, radio electronics specialists, and artillery / missile specialists) were recruited from "whites". Torpedo-miners were recruited from Moldovans, who were also not particularly intelligent, and were nicknamed "Romanians".
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Yeah, more like insufficiently-educated. But even on the subs we had a few guys who just were NOT up to standards.
 
Occasionally you can get one of McNamara's Morons good with his hands.

My Dad didn't even finish high school, yet I saw him set a kitten's broken leg with a brace I once had on a pinky caught in a door--two popsicle sticks and white tape.

I will never forget that.
 
pathology_doc said:
A ship is designed to have her hull supported at all points by the water. Having part of it be cantilevered over a gap is a deviant condition (sagging or hogging, depending where the force is applied) which has to be allowed for in the design stage but is assumed to be a temporary condition. The construction is not the same as for a bridge, it is not going to respond in the same way, and this is why it is not healthy to leave a ship (especially a big one) on the blocks indefinitely.

It's also the reason they launch the hull before they fit in a bunch of the heavy things - so that it's supported at all points along its length.
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Once again, steel has no mind, it works the same way in all directions (with forged steel being an exception in this regard) and applications. Steel doesn’t care if a force is intended by the designer or not. If the tension is below the yield strength, it will not creep or bend in any way. If it doesn’t deform in 1 minute, it won’t deform in a decade. This is true for ships in a dry-dock as well as for bridges.

There is also some misconception, the stressful part is not laying on a support structure, nor swimming but the part in between. If the hull comes into contact with the support structure on one end, the lifting force in that area can will be increased too much higher level than the buoyancy thus causing massive bending. That is also the reason why ships are highly strained during their launch,
 
Defense Updates has put out a video about the possible retirement and scrapping of the Kuznetsov:


On July 11, the Russian newspaper ‘Izvestia’ reported that the Ministry of Defense may scrap plans to refurbish the ‘Admiral Kuznetsov’ aircraft carrier. Citing unnamed sources familiar with the matter, the article stated that the vessel’s overhaul and modernization have been effectively put on hold.​
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A final decision on the future of the carrier—often described as “cursed” due to its long history of accidents and delays—is expected soon, with input from the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy and the United Shipbuilding Corporation.​
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According to the report, several high-ranking Russian naval officials now favor decommissioning the country's only aircraft carrier altogether.
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In this video, Defense Updates analyzes why the Russian Admiral Kuznetsov is likely to be scrapped?
#defenseupdates #admiralkuznetsov #putin
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Chapters:
0:00 TITLE
00:11 INTRODUCTION
01:03 SPONSORSHIP - NordVPN
01:37 OVERVIEW
02:57 TACTICAL RETHINKING
05:19 NEVER-ENDING REFITS & REPAIRS
07:01 ANALYSIS
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Lol, make money on faking repairs@result doesn't make sense, let's just scrap.
Can I work like this?
 
Nicknick said:
Once again, steel has no mind, it works the same way in all directions (with forged steel being an exception in this regard) and applications. Steel doesn’t care if a force is intended by the designer or not. If the tension is below the yield strength, it will not creep or bend in any way. If it doesn’t deform in 1 minute, it won’t deform in a decade. This is true for ships in a dry-dock as well as for bridges.
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not true.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...dent deformation at,strength at 0.2% offset).
 
Byeman said:
not true.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...dent deformation at,strength at 0.2% offset).
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This was done with cyclic load cycles, which doesn't happen with a ship in a dry dock. The cyclic stress level (1/3 of Rp0.2) it surly much higher, than any part of the ship hull will expierience when dry docked.

The examination was done with heat treated high strength steel (SAE4340) which is a completly different material to a typical steel for ships, which have to be very ductile and well suited for welding.

Nevertheless, usually, the rule of thump says, if you stay below 1/2 RP0.2 steel steel will survive any number of load cycles. It is the firt time ever, that I heard of any creeping propblem with carbon steel at room temperature. I might not be a general problem and could be related to the specific chemical composition.
 

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