Marinekleinkampfmittel "MANTA" and „SEETEUFEL“

[moin1900]

Hi everybody

I have found a very unusual Project from the Germans in 1945. It should be called the "MANTA"
It should be a Submarine-Catamaran-Glider designed by Hellmuth Walther.
Able to drive on land, drive at high speed on water and also to submerge .

SOME DATA
length: 15m, breadth: 6m , displacement: 50t
engine: 2x 800 PS Walterturbines
2x 25 PS Electric Engines
speed: 20kn with airfoils 50kn
30kn underwater
Crew: 2 crew members

Here is a Picture

Modelstories

Modelstories, avions & maquettes.<br>Modelstories, kits & planes

modelscale.free.fr

Some more text here

http://homepages.fh-giessen.de/~hg6339/data/de/submarines/1944_midget-submarines/tec_midget-sub4.htm

Are there any other Pictures ?

Thanks in advance and many greetings

 

[avatar]

Fourthly , the existence of tracks from midget submarines
supported the conclusion that the Warsaw Pact was responsible for the
intrusions. It would, according to the Defence Staff Report, be ‘almost
impossible to keep such systems secret in the West.’82

This is from the following document

http://www.php.isn.ethz.ch/publications/areastudies/documents/subinc/Tunander2.pdf

and here is a picture from the link you posted above

Hmmm ... I wonder

 

[papacavy]

Hmmm...
I made an AutoCAD drawing of the MANTA a year or so ago, but abandoned it due to more pressing matters. Let me look through my archives for the drawing and I will post it sometime next week as a PDF.

 

[moin1900]

Hi everyone

Thanks in advance ! papacavy

Many greetings

 

[papacavy]

OK...

I'm having problems posting the PDFs, so whoever wants a copy of the PDFs please e-mail me at:

papacavyATyahooDOTcom

with MANTA SUB in the subject line.

 

[AF]

Hi

my finds to Manta and seeteufel (submarine with tracks).

Source: book Miniponorky - osameli lovci

from here: http://www.svetkridel.cz/index.php?id=knihy&formik=ne

 

[moin1900]

Hi everybody

To AF: Nice Pics !

Many greetings

 

[moin1900]

Hi everybody

Maybe a stupid question ! How many gliding surfaces are located between the side keels ?
I see three ? Are there four !
Please look here
http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/Manta.htm

Many greetings and thanks a lot for help

 

[moin1900]

Hi everybody

Somebody knows this ? It would be very helpful!
Please look here http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/subfiles

Many greetings

 

[RP1]

Interesting stuff, moin1900. I suspect that the wheels were to allow handling ashore and launch via a slipway - they wouldn't have been much use on the seabed! It might work quite well as a single-purpose coastal defence craft.

RP1

 

[Grey Havoc]

H I Sutton's fascinating new article

Manta-U-Boat-of-World-War-Two

Updated, Originally published Jan 28, 2020 **Manta** Untersee-Gleitflächen-SchnellbootAs the situation in Europe worsened for Nazi Germany during World War Two, the Kriegsmarine turned to ever more desperate ideas.Possibly the most ambitious was the Manta…Read More >….

www.hisutton.com

 

[Grey Havoc]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo702z9USlo

 

[1946]

a photo of the model as found with suggested armament to be used

 

[1946]

Choroszy Models makes a model of this in 1/72 resin (picture is from the box art)

 

[publiusr]

Might those keels be sound attenuators?
Whatever the noise the main body of the sun makes…flat surfaces can cancel out…or allow communication up above:

Researchers realize water-air acoustic communication based on broadband impedance matching

With increasing demand for exploration and utilization of marine resources, achieving direct and efficient communication between water and air has been an urgent need. Sound waves, as the only propagation way with low attenuation in both water and air, has been considered the most practical way...

phys.org

New AI noise-canceling headphone technology lets wearers pick which sounds they hear

Most anyone who's used noise-canceling headphones knows that hearing the right noise at the right time can be vital. Someone might want to erase car horns when working indoors, but not when walking along busy streets. Yet people can't choose what sounds their headphones cancel.

techxplore.com

Those flat surfaces to either side may have other uses…

 

[Scott Kenny]

Might those keels be sound attenuators?
Whatever the noise the main body of the sun makes…flat surfaces can cancel out…or allow communication up above:

Researchers realize water-air acoustic communication based on broadband impedance matching

With increasing demand for exploration and utilization of marine resources, achieving direct and efficient communication between water and air has been an urgent need. Sound waves, as the only propagation way with low attenuation in both water and air, has been considered the most practical way...

phys.org

New AI noise-canceling headphone technology lets wearers pick which sounds they hear

Most anyone who's used noise-canceling headphones knows that hearing the right noise at the right time can be vital. Someone might want to erase car horns when working indoors, but not when walking along busy streets. Yet people can't choose what sounds their headphones cancel.

techxplore.com

Those flat surfaces to either side may have other uses…

Probably not at the time.

Now it would definitely be on the list.

 

[Adler]

Today I discovered the "UGS Manta" (Untersee-Gleitflächen-Schnellboot) - a German project for an amphibious hydrofoil submarine. Intended purpose was to sink allied landing and supply ships from close range and at high speeds (30 knots submerged and 50 knots above the surface as a hydrofoil). Project went nowhere, but this "Frankenstein" in lack of a better term, was also adapted for land-based travel and came with 4 large wheels imbedded in its hydrofoils. Why in the first place would one need an amphibious submarine, when all the dead weight would become a burden at sea, and were there any other projects of the like?

Manta-U-Boat-of-World-War-Two

Updated, Originally published Jan 28, 2020 **Manta** Untersee-Gleitflächen-SchnellbootAs the situation in Europe worsened for Nazi Germany during World War Two, the Kriegsmarine turned to ever more desperate ideas.Possibly the most ambitious was the Manta…Read More >….

www.hisutton.com

Manta (paper project & mockup 1944)

A submarine, with wings, and wheels ? This was one of the most amazing Nazi

naval-encyclopedia.com

 

[southwestforests]

Why in the first place would one need an amphibious submarine,

Isn't there a famous saying which goes something like, "Build it and the why will come." ?

 

[Scott Kenny]

I think the wheels were for launch and recovery, not anything particularly weird.

 

[Adler]

I think the wheels were for launch and recovery, not anything particularly weird.

Even if so, they take up weight and space, why not just use a trailer?

 

[southwestforests]

I think the wheels were for launch and recovery, not anything particularly weird.

Even if so, they take up weight and space, why not just use a trailer?

As it turns out, the referenced web page suggests the wheels were for something weird,

When surfacing, the propulsion mode is even more exotic you can think: With less drag, the speed was to be in excess of 90 kph and the keels where not even supposed to surf, but to roll over the waves thanks to four encased massive aviation wheels. This way, the drag was even more limited and at that speed the water surface was hard enough for the Manta to roll over. For extra lift there were two extra pairs of foils, for and aft of the keels before the wheels took over.

 

[Adler]

As it turns out, the referenced web page suggests the wheels were for something weird,

I have a hard time believing that. Going from the diagrams, the propellers are situated above the wheels, and above the hydrofoil keels, which means totally lifting them out of the water will result in the propellers being likewise lifted, and leaving the craft without propulsion. Unless you have jet engines to switch over to (essentially a GEV), you would immediately loose speed and plunge back down into the water. The wheels are not enough to sustain the high speed on water (tried driving your car on a lake at 90km/h?), and would cause more drag than thrust to begin with.

Since most original documents were destroyed, we can assume it had additional hydrofoils with secondary engines to be lowered down, but that still does not explain the presence of the wheels.

 

[southwestforests]

I have a hard time believing that. Going from the diagrams, the propellers are situated above the wheels, and above the hydrofoil keels, which means totally lifting them out of the water will result in the propellers being likewise lifted, and leaving the craft without propulsion.

There is that, even so, what the page says is what the provided page reference says.

HI Sutton has a web page on this thing and his information differs about the wheels' purpose but his information is not the one being referenced here.

 

[Jemiba]

From the mentioned H.I.Sutton site "The outer hulls each mounted an electric motor and had wheels".

To me, that means, that this type could be brought to a flat beach, maybe by a flatbed truck, and then launch itself into the water.
The problem with Kleinkampfmittel (small battle units) often was, that they needed some kind of prepared berth, with cranes, or slipways, making those locations vulnerable, costing precious range, and giving the allies a clue, where to look for such vehicles.

 

[andrei.dan.3d]

Hi there,

I’ve got a soft spot for unusual projects, especially the rare, odd, or never-built ones, so of course I had to take this one on. It started last year as a test for some new software(Plasticity), and like any good learning curve, it had its ups and downs. After a fair share of trial, error, and tinkering, I finally got it across the finish line, and I’m really happy with how it turned out.
I put together an interior for this scale model, mostly for context, since I was planning to print it at 1:18 scale, and maybe even try turning it into an RC model. I wanted something you could see through the access hatches, so I loosely borrowed from the Seehund’s interior and built the cabin in a similar style.
If you’ve got a 3D printer and feel like giving this project a go, you can grab it here: https://shorturl.at/M5nkJ

 

[Adler]

Hi there,

I’ve got a soft spot for unusual projects, especially the rare, odd, or never-built ones, so of course I had to take this one on. It started last year as a test for some new software(Plasticity), and like any good learning curve, it had its ups and downs. After a fair share of trial, error, and tinkering, I finally got it across the finish line, and I’m really happy with how it turned out.
I put together an interior for this scale model, mostly for context, since I was planning to print it at 1:18 scale, and maybe even try turning it into an RC model. I wanted something you could see through the access hatches, so I loosely borrowed from the Seehund’s interior and built the cabin in a similar style.
If you’ve got a 3D printer and feel like giving this project a go, you can grab it here: https://shorturl.at/M5nkJ

Wunderbar! Amazing work!

 

[andrei.dan.3d]

Wunderbar! Amazing work!

Thank you very much!

By the way, you’re absolutely right about the propellers being in the wrong position. My guess is I would’ve found that out the hard way on the RC version. Still, it’s a fascinating project, and I think it would be great fun to bring it to life as an RC minisub.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Hey, @merriman new submarine project?