Naval Drones

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NMaude said:
Isn't that supposed to be quite sensitive?
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Very much so. My inorganic chem class was making an organic metallic substance with molybdenum, and my best guess is that it formed an unstable metal salt. The absolute worst case for stability is a nitro group carbon ring salt that exothermicly disassociates. That’s basically like mixing strike anywhere matches with gravel and shaking it. I am amazed no one ever noticed that mixing the orgo lab chem waste with inorganic chem waste was problematic for decades.

ETA: the orgo class was using DNP for a test, I forgot which (I did it too the year before), which is probably the most touchy chemical any undergraduate has ever worked with. Our inorganic class chemical waste included concentrated nitric acid, which like kicked at least few DNPs to TNPs, and then we added metal to the same mix. The heat from the salt disassociating likely set off the nitro detonation.

ETA2: DNP was specifically being used to test for the presence of ketones in the orgo class.
 
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Defense Updates has put out a video about the Magura-7 drone that shot down two Su-30SM Flanker-Hs:


Ukraine’s Defense Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reportedly shot down two Su-30SM multirole fighters with AIM-9 Sidewinder infrared-guided air-to-air missiles fired by Magura-7 drone boats.This marks the first time fighter aircraft has been downed by drone boats and the first use of the AIM-9 from a drone boat for a kill.
The Su-30SM, the aircraft targeted in the attack, is a twin-engine, multi-role fighter jet developed by Russia's Sukhoi Aviation Corporation. A modernized variant of the Su-27 series, it entered service in the 1990s and is designed for air superiority, ground assault, and maritime strike operations.
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The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said: "For the first time in history, a warplane was destroyed by a sea drone ... War at sea is entering a new era.
"Viewers may note , this is not the first time Ukraine has said it shot down a Russian aerial asset with a missile fired by a drone boat, but that was not a fighter jet.
In December, Ukraine claimed it used an AA-11 fired from an uncrewed surface vessel (USV) to down a Russian Mi-8 Hip helicopter over the Black Sea.
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In this video, Defense Updates analyzes how Ukrainian Magura-7 drone boat managed to down Russian Su-30 Flanker?
#defenseupdates #sukhoi30SMdown #ukrainerussiawar
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Chapters:
0:00 TITLE
00:11 INTRODUCTION
01:34 SPONSORSHIP - NordVPN
02:08 RUSSIAN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
03:26 MAGURA V7
05:26 AIM-9
07:56 ANALYSIS
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Scott Kenny said:
How did a Flanker get close enough to be engaged by a surface-launched Sidewinder?!?
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Combine arms Tactics.

Bet you anything that theres a Patriot or S radar on shore that ping Him, Cue him diving to the deck to get under the radar horizon.

Meanwhile on the Sea.

Drone dual wielding Sidewinders: "Surprise MUTHERF***!"

Text book land ADA tactics used for sea. The Few Big Scary SAM forces the craft down low into the short range more numerous Sams killzone. Vietnam use this to great effect in Nam and it still useful today if you can't into SEAD/DEAD tactics to break it.
 
Josh_TN said:
The Su-30s engage the USVs with 30mm. So they are well within envelope.
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True but the pilot has to be able to spot them first and in this scenario he's rather distracted being illuminated by a Ukrainian land-based SAM-battery or two.
 
NMaude said:
True but the pilot has to be able to spot them first and in this scenario he's rather distracted being illuminated by a Ukrainian land-based SAM-battery or two.
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I doubt there is any land based radar involved; the distance is too long for low-medium altitude detection and the complexity of forwarding this information to a disposable drone is daunting. I think it is just easy to see the aircraft when it fired; apparently some unarmed USVs were used as bait.
 
Josh_TN said:
I doubt there is any land based radar involved; the distance is too long for low-medium altitude detection and the complexity of forwarding this information to a disposable drone is daunting. I think it is just easy to see the aircraft when it fired; apparently some unarmed USVs were used as bait.
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Not that daunting at all with it depending on how the system is set up.

Very easily see Ukraine using pre determine areas that both the Sam and Drone operators know so that way the Sam folks only need to say.

"Target in Grid E42"

Causing the Drone Operators sending a signal to the drones in that area to go Hot and start searching. Or rather Cool in activing the Sidewinder seeker coolant pumps.

Can see that even more likely over compete automatication like you are seemly thinking. Safer, more reliable, less likely for it to go stupid...
 
I suspect there is still man in the loop; I just doubt that the USVs are receiving any external target data.The remote operators however might very well be given information from AD units, assuming any way available. But Su-30 gun runs are probably well below the radar horizon.
 
Scott Kenny said:
In that case, they deserve to get their butts shot off.
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Well it is/was probably viewed as a cost effective way of engaging cheap, numerous platforms with something on hand. Though I would think helo or Su-25 more suitable (certainly the former are also used). I am guessing that either the sensors of the Su-30 are necessary to hunt USVs or else the Su-30s are already on station for some other mission (CAP?) and get called in to engage the targets. But I cannot think of any weapon that is a good match for small swarming drones in Russian inventory. The U.S. has been struggling with this and seems to have settled on guided FFRs and older versions of AIM-9. I suspect JAGM would be a candidate once it is integrated with more fixed wing platforms. But I cannot think of a Russian weapon that is a good match - there are some guided weapons that would be overkill, but nothing small.
 
Josh_TN said:
But I cannot think of any weapon that is a good match for small swarming drones in Russian inventory. The U.S. has been struggling with this and seems to have settled on guided FFRs and older versions of AIM-9. I suspect JAGM would be a candidate once it is integrated with more fixed wing platforms. But I cannot think of a Russian weapon that is a good match - there are some guided weapons that would be overkill, but nothing small.
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True.

I'm not aware of any Russian equivalents to APKWS heads for their 57mm or 130mm rockets, and a 57mm APKWS would be just about ideal for small USVs.
 
It looks like after the considerable success Ukraine has had with its' drone-boat fleet in the Black Sea the USN is ramping up its' plans for its' own drone-boats, from Sandboxx:


The US Navy is fielding a veritable army of what I can only really describe as autonomous drone swarm speedboats capable of traversing the open ocean at highway speeds, while offering enough range to escort carrier strike groups, and enough payload to sink enemy ships.
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So let's talk about these automated warfighters, and why they may represent the best bang for the U.S. Navy's buck that we've seen surface in years.
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Forest Green said:
https://www.navalnews.com/event-new...ko-s-x-asw-drone-shown-by-tkms-at-imdex-2025/
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That's a very interesting shape to the submerged hull. @covert_shores what can you tell us about that, hydrodynamically?

I'm not sure about the speed capabilities, unless that propulsor duct is focusing on maximizing pressure on the blades. An open prop will cavitate like crazy above about 14 knots on the surface.

I really like that it's got a VDS and probably a hull sonar, so it can listen for subs snorkeling or otherwise lurking at Periscope Depth, while also being able to get a sensor below the 200ft Thermocline to listen or actively ping for subs transiting.

My main concern operational concern would be the ability to maintain depth, avoiding taking tons of green water over the sail/bridge and more importantly, the engine air inlet!
 
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Another menacing toy is going to be added to the Korean Navy. (UMUUV) Upright Multi-purpose Unmanned Underwater Vehicle development confirmed. It is a special sea drone the size of a heavy torpedo, and it is said to be equipped with cruise missiles and suicide drones. The concept is that the submarines spray a large number of UMUUVs into the sea, and then the UMUUVs receive orders from their superiors and fire their weapons all at once.They have a new type of self-propelled sea mine for the KSS-III, but they decided to develop a special heavy torpedo. If LIGNex1's self-propelled mines are weapons that destroy submarines and warships deep in enemy territory, the UMUUV is a weapon that launches a surprise attack on inland from far away in the sea.So, the UMUUV can launch Hyunmoo-III long-range cruise missiles...Another brilliant firepower solution...
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1925524067438010435
View: https://x.com/mason_8718/status/1925524067438010435
 
Sandboxx has a new video out about Anduril new line of AI-controlled submarines and torpedoes:


The sky is not enough for Anduril’s design team, and soon, they could bring about a seismic shift in the world’s largest warfighting domain: the open ocean, with their school-bus-sized drone submarine known as the DIVE-XL, and a new bevy of AI enabled undersea drones and low-cost torpedoes they’ve dubbed Copperhead.
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Let's run these platforms down, and the U.S. Navy's problems that they could help solve.
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