ECOSHIPS : radical french new project for "ecological" warships

[colombamike]

View of ECOSHIPS
a french study for ecological warships

 

[TinWing]

Putting aside the solar cells and the silly "kite" auxiliary propulsion, the design has a vague similarity to the canceled BAMO Narvik ocean mine countermeasures ship, although there are obvious differences in scale and size. At very least, DCN has experience with double hull vessels of composite construction, although the Narvik itself was never completed? Actually, Narvik warrants its own thread.....

 

[Triton]

Thank you for sharing this concept colombamike

 

[F-14D]

Before dismissing the idea entirely, I'd like to see the numbers on exactly how much fuel they're saving. The kite thing, though absurd-looking, is apparently effective enough to interest shipping lines in it--and for monetary reasons, not enviro-hairshirtism ones.

Well, lesseee. As depicted, the warship seems to lack one important consideration: weapons. Just a couple of small guns, no missiles, a helo deck but not much else. That's because most of the deck is taken up with solar cells, which are poor choices for on-demand power, especially in a relatively compact area, and will require lot of work to keep clean (power generation capability falls off rapidly the further you get from pristine).

Fuel savings alone are not a valid measure, its fuel savings vs. capabilities. After all, the maximum fuel savings can be achieved if the ship never leaves the dock and the sailors all have fierce expressions and shake their fists at the foe. I suspect that given the limited amount of power that will be available, there won't be a lot of capability.

...and heaven help it if it encountered any "real" opponent. That white kite might be in big demand after all...

IMHO

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

NOT IN MY NAVY! Have a fine Navy day, gents.

Moonbat

 

[MihoshiK]

I wonder how much environmental impact this ship will have when it's lack of CIWS means it will fall prey to the first guy that lobs a SSM at it...

Maybe it's meant to be a man-made reef?

 

[Just call me Ray]

Well, lesseee. As depicted, the warship seems to lack one important consideration: weapons. Just a couple of small guns, no missiles, a helo deck but not much else. That's because most of the deck is taken up with solar cells, which are poor choices for on-demand power, especially in a relatively compact area, and will require lot of work to keep clean (power generation capability falls off rapidly the further you get from pristine).

TinWing's observation makes me wonder if this is meant to be an auxiliary of some type, such as a minesweeper like the original Navik or an environmental/fisheries protection or patrol vessel. It would make sense in that regard, and would give such a vessel decent endurance too.

 

[Orionblamblam]

I can see that Scott is not in the Christmas mood yet!

Actually, I am. Wait till I get mad.

 

[Triton]

The DCNS "Ecoship" is an environmentally conscious design study to replace the French Navy's five Bâtiment de Transport Léger or BATRAL class light amphibious landing ships. The BATRAL class itself is only 80 m (262 ft) and has a fully loaded displacement of 1,330 tons. It is armed with two 40 mm guns and two 12.7 mm machine guns, which explains why the "Ecoship" appears to be so lightly armed. The BATRAL is designed to ferry 400 tons of material to land a Guépard-type intervention unit (5 officers, 15 petty officers and 118 men), so I presume that the "Ecoship" is designed to carry a similar number of men and material

To save on weight and reduce the size of the powerplant, the "Ecoship" has an aluminum hull instead of steel. A catamaran hull was chosen over a monohull to further reduce the size of the powerplant and to also increase deck space. The ship is powered by a hybrid electric and medium-speed diesel powerplant to reduce fuel consumption and also carbon dioxide emissions. The powerplant powers a cycloidal drive system.

The hull uses silicone-based anti-fouling that is non-toxic.

The ship also has solar cells and the kite sail that has already been commented on.

Sources:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.techniques-ingenieur.fr/article/article_6179/ecoship--le-fleuron-ecologique-de-la-marine-francaise.html&ei=umsxS9qfGoSasgOl-I3YAw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CDAQ7gEwBw&prev=/search%3Fq%3DEcoship%2BDCNS%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-USfficial%26sa%3DN

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BATRAL

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.meretmarine.com%2Farticle.cfm%3Fid%3D108689&sl=fr&tl=en

 

[TinWing]

This thread has diverged from the original topic. All posts should pertain to the specifics of the DCNS concept, or to related issues such as multi-hull construction.

 

[colombamike]

another view of the brochure
regard

 

[Nik]

Uh, could the kite also support an antenna for UAV control ? Extend horizon some-what, save sat issues...

 

[hs1216]

I thought the Falklands proved that aluminum wasn't a terribly good warship building material, as far as getting hit by missiles is concerned.

 

[TinWing]

I thought the Falklands proved that aluminum wasn't a terribly good warship building material, as far as getting hit by missiles is concerned.

That's a widely held misconception. In reality, the USS Belknap fire of 1975 was far more influential, while the losses that occurred during the Falklands war had more to do with real design flaws, such as the lack of a second fire main, poor damage control, and poor shipbuilding practices in general, etc. All to frequently, the reversion to a steel superstructure in the DDG-51 class is wrong attributed to the Falklands War losses.

 

[Grey Havoc]

The Japanese are going all out on 'ecoships' at the moment, though there doesn't seem to be any dedicated MSDF/Naval projects so far.

www.maritimejapan.com/xoopspartners/vpartner.php?id=18

 

[Grey Havoc]

Link in last post is dead unfortunately. On a related note though:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/future-applications-of-wind-power-for-maritime-propulsion.8963/post-776158

 

[Scott Kenny]

The DCNS "Ecoship" is an environmentally conscious design study to replace the French Navy's five Bâtiment de Transport Léger or BATRAL class light amphibious landing ships. The BATRAL class itself is only 80 m (262 ft) and has a fully loaded displacement of 1,330 tons. It is armed with two 40 mm guns and two 12.7 mm machine guns, which explains why the "Ecoship" appears to be so lightly armed. The BATRAL is designed to ferry 400 tons of material to land a Guépard-type intervention unit (5 officers, 15 petty officers and 118 men), so I presume that the "Ecoship" is designed to carry a similar number of men and material

Crud, that's basically an LCU... But with guns.

Times and threats have changed, so I think it'd need more like a RAM and a CIWS, or maybe a pair of OTO 76mm Supraponte mounts, to protect itself in the Red Sea. The 76mm could be loaded with VULCANO guided rounds for shore support, which is an improvement over the BATRALs.

(Yes, I have a thing for the OTO 76mm. Great flexibility and it weighs the same as a Phalanx CIWS! I'm also using the threat level of the Red Sea/Houthi and the Blowfish as the current standard for "threats less than war but more than normal peacetime")

To save on weight and reduce the size of the powerplant, the "Ecoship" has an aluminum hull instead of steel. A catamaran hull was chosen over a monohull to further reduce the size of the powerplant and to also increase deck space. The ship is powered by a hybrid electric and medium-speed diesel powerplant to reduce fuel consumption and also carbon dioxide emissions. The powerplant powers a cycloidal drive system.

The hull uses silicone-based anti-fouling that is non-toxic.

The ship also has solar cells and the kite sail that has already been commented on.

I'm not sold on aluminum construction for multihull ships. The LCS had had some issues with cracking and with general cathodic protection.

Diesel-electric drive should almost be expected for this type of ship, if not full IEP. Cycloidal drive like a tugboat makes sense for mission.

The silicone antifouling paint is an interesting thing I'd like more details on. Generally, antifouling paint is nasty, horrifically toxic stuff to apply. If it's just "too slick for marine growth to latch onto", that would also help reduce hull drag.

Instead of being assigned to chip paint for punishment, sailors are going to be assigned to "wash the solar panels!"

I like the idea of using the kite sail as a potential "lofted" sensor or even just radio antenna position.

 

[TomS]

Crud, that's basically an LCU... But with guns.

In practice, the replacements for the Batrals became more or less pure OPVs without the amphibious landing capacity of their predecessors.

D'Entrecasteaux-class patrol ship - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Scott Kenny]

In practice, the replacements for the Batrals became more or less pure OPVs without the amphibious landing capacity of their predecessors.

That's a significant loss of capability.

 

[TomS]

That's a significant loss of capability.

I came across an article (in French) describing the ships. They actually can carry about 220 tons of dry cargo and 200 tons of fuel for disaster relief missions, as well as a couple of light trucks and a construction vehicle, plus an LCVP equivalent to land it. So not a tiny capacity, just reoriented toward their more typical use case of emergency assistance rather than military intervention.

A bord du bâtiment multi-missions (B2M) D’Entrecasteaux | Mer et Marine

Tête de série du programme des bâtiments multi-missions (B2M), le D’Entrecasteaux a appareillé hier de Brest pour rejoindre Nouméa, où il sera basé ...

www.meretmarine.com

 

[H_K]

I came across an article (in French) describing the ships. They actually can carry about 220 tons of dry cargo and 200 tons of fuel for disaster relief missions, as well as a couple of light trucks and a construction vehicle, plus an LCVP equivalent to land it. So not a tiny capacity, just reoriented toward their more typical use case of emergency assistance rather than military intervention.

A bord du bâtiment multi-missions (B2M) D’Entrecasteaux | Mer et Marine

Tête de série du programme des bâtiments multi-missions (B2M), le D’Entrecasteaux a appareillé hier de Brest pour rejoindre Nouméa, où il sera basé ...

www.meretmarine.com

Also A400Ms now can provide the same rapid reaction capability as a small landing ship, with the added efficiency of better global coverage. After all we’re talking about lifting 1 company with light vehicles at Mach 0.7 vs 14 knots… so even if the troops have to fly all the way from France it’s doable within a 48h or 72h timeframe.

The D’Entrecasteaux B2M are there to provide logistics support (fuel, water, medical facility, cranes, divers to reopen port facilities etc) rather than lift rapid response forces