TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

[Trident]

Here, you can see that Mid body-Aft connection doesn't have serration

Is that line in the first picture even a joint? Might as well be a tool cable for all the evidence to the contrary, and the second is too low-res to even tell anything at all.

Yes. If the join isn't going to open you can treat it with materials to bridge over the discontinuity. If the join is a panel which needs to open regularly in the air e.g landing gear or weapons bay it needs to be aligned for sure. If it opens regularly on the ground e.g. access panels, either it has to be aligned or treated before flight, which greatly increases maintenance times.

There clearly seems to be a bit more to it that that, though. Nobody is going to remove the forward fuselage from the airframe any more regularly than the rear section, yet the joint between the former and the mid fuselage is serrated on the TFX while the seam with the latter isn't. Same type of joint, completely different implementation.

And it's not just a serrated treatment covering a straight joint either. If you look at the forward edge of the upper wing skin, where the panel in front is still missing, you can see that it's the panel edge itself that is serrated.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Pretty unusual to do approach today that rather than an Iron/Copper Bird on the ground and CAD for physical integration. Could argue that it lowers risk I suppose but it is much more expensive and probably makes the testing take longer. These very early air vehicles are usually 100s $m to build

True, since they've also built an irom bird for their Hürjet trainer aircraft. Though like I've said before, you can't test the structural integrity of an aircraft with an iron bird. In that sense having a ground test vehicle built now sounds quite reasonable, as long as the FTV, which will be built after CDR, have enough similarity to the GTV structurally.

 

[red admiral]

I'd definitely expect a static structural test article to be built, but this doesn't seem to be that given the reports

 

[Radonislav]

Here, you can see that Mid body-Aft connection doesn't have serration

Is that line in the first picture even a joint? Might as well be a tool cable for all the evidence to the contrary, and the second is too low-res to even tell anything at all.

Yes. If the join isn't going to open you can treat it with materials to bridge over the discontinuity. If the join is a panel which needs to open regularly in the air e.g landing gear or weapons bay it needs to be aligned for sure. If it opens regularly on the ground e.g. access panels, either it has to be aligned or treated before flight, which greatly increases maintenance times.

There clearly seems to be a bit more to it that that, though. Nobody is going to remove the forward fuselage from the airframe any more regularly than the rear section, yet the joint between the former and the mid fuselage is serrated on the TFX while the seam with the latter isn't. Same type of joint, completely different implementation.

And it's not just a serrated treatment covering a straight joint either. If you look at the forward edge of the upper wing skin, where the panel in front is still missing, you can see that it's the panel edge itself that is serrated.

it is a joint, you can see it in every F-35 photo, even the flying ones (even though it is harder to see because of RAM applied over it)


"There clearly seems to be a bit more to it that that, though. Nobody is going to remove the forward fuselage from the airframe any more regularly than the rear section, yet the joint between the former and the mid fuselage is serrated on the TFX while the seam with the latter isn't. Same type of joint, completely different implementation."

it could still be a big maintenance cover, just not to be used frequently, probably for accessing some avionics and tech, the reason why they didn't use just a panel, I don't know
That panel is clearly not the thing holding the two structures

 

[helmutkohl]

Has TAI sought any kind of external funding for this project?
similar to how Korea received (sort of) funding from Indonesia for their KFX project?

is the TFX intended for export or primarily home market only?

I could imagine the TFX competing with the FC-31 in Pakistan, which has a history of using both Chinese and Turkish weapons

 

[Radonislav]

TF-X current form (white lines) over TurAF presentation drawing

 

[FighterJock]

TF-X current form (white lines) over TurAF presentation drawingView attachment 688036

Despite the very slightly bigger wings, tail fins and the control surfaces the new design is not that much different from the old one.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Has TAI sought any kind of external funding for this project?
similar to how Korea received (sort of) funding from Indonesia for their KFX project?

is the TFX intended for export or primarily home market only?

I could imagine the TFX competing with the FC-31 in Pakistan, which has a history of using both Chinese and Turkish weapons

Not specifically external funding, but they did look for a partner early on for the project. They've entered formal negotiations with Korea and Sweden for joint development although both negotiations fell through. SAAB was involved in preliminary design studies in the early-mid 2010s, when there were three different designs if you'd recall. It's also the time when TF-X was more of a Falcon or Super Hornet sized aircraft, not the F-15/F-22 sized fighter of today.

They are putting quite an emphasis on export, but first they'll need to fly that thing and next they'll need to fly that thing with their own pair of engines. Before export, their primary focus seems to lie on the domestic development, although the purpose of that "domestic development" is to make that jet "ITAR free" so that they could sell that thing to whomever they want.

 

[Combat-Master]

Pretty unusual to do approach today that rather than an Iron/Copper Bird on the ground and CAD for physical integration. Could argue that it lowers risk I suppose but it is much more expensive and probably makes the testing take longer. These very early air vehicles are usually 100s $m to build

True, since they've also built an irom bird for their Hürjet trainer aircraft. Though like I've said before, you can't test the structural integrity of an aircraft with an iron bird. In that sense having a ground test vehicle built now sounds quite reasonable, as long as the FTV, which will be built after CDR, have enough similarity to the GTV structurally.

Also to add, TFX is built upon foundation of having digital twin integrated in with it's development

https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/co...s-for-national-combat-aircraft-initiated-4820

 

[Canardzz]

TF-X's canopy is produced by a Turkish company named Volo.

 

[Combat-Master]

TF-X's canopy is produced by a Turkish company named Volo.

View attachment 688104

Volo was startup company with main emphasis on producing composite domes for UAV SATCOMs. They have since produce radomes for Airbus A320, Akinci UCAV and various missile projects for Turkish Defence Industry.




I wouldn't be surprised if Volo is the one producing the radome nose section of the TFX.

 

[Combat-Master]

Closer look at the body work

 

[Radonislav]

Seems like there is a kind of non-shiny cover for the screws

Closer look at the body work
View attachment 688124

 

[Combat-Master]

Seems like there is a kind of non-shiny cover for the screws

Closer look at the body work
View attachment 688124

Would be nice to know if any treatment was done on the bolt heads, images aren't detailed enough to tell though.


Could one say, Turkey has access to F-35 level bolts since TAI was involved in producing F-35A center fuselage

 

[Combat-Master]

Turkey's PETLAS has developed tyres for TFX; I think we can see how far Turkey is going with making as much of the aircraft in-house as possible

<Rear Tyre - Front Tyre> Also above you can see tyres for Baykar UCAV's

 

[Canardzz]

TF-X will feature a 30mm gun. A tender is currently in place.

 

[red admiral]

Where does the gun go? It doesn't look very obvious from the in-build pictures

 

[Canardzz]

Where does the gun go? It doesn't look very obvious from the in-build pictures

It won't likely be present on GTU-0. I'm expecting a visible slot for it on Block 0.

 

[Canardzz]

TF-X's maiden flight has been moved to 2024 now!

-Landing gears have also arrived. Engines and gears will be installed on the 20th.

 

[Nart]

TF-X's maiden flight has been moved to 2024 now!

-Landing gears have also arrived. Engines and gears will be installed on the 20th.

TAI Ankara project office denied this statement. They 'believe' Mr. Kotil said 2024 by mistake and confused it with the CDR. AFAIK no one was informed about this decision.

 

[Canardzz]

TF-X's maiden flight has been moved to 2024 now!

-Landing gears have also arrived. Engines and gears will be installed on the 20th.

TAI Ankara project office denied this statement. They 'believe' Mr. Kotil said 2024 by mistake and confused it with the CDR. AFAIK no one was informed about this decision.

Happens quite frequently ngl. But yeah we will see. The rest of the statement is true tho.

 

[Canardzz]

The news is true. First flight planned in 2024.

 

[torginus]

TF-X's maiden flight has been moved to 2024 now!

-Landing gears have also arrived. Engines and gears will be installed on the 20th.

What engines?

Are they using existing Western engines?

Is the Turkish engine effort so far along that its years away from being flyable?
Very impressive if so, considering they've never made an engine of this class before.

 

[Geo]

TF-X's maiden flight has been moved to 2024 now!

-Landing gears have also arrived. Engines and gears will be installed on the 20th.

What engines?

Are they using existing Western engines?

Is the Turkish engine effort so far along that its years away from being flyable?
Very impressive if so, considering they've never made an engine of this class before.

F110-GE-129E

 

[snne]

Mr Kotil: "The mid-body of MMU is a whole 4 ton piece. We decided to make this part in one piece and it was produced vertically. This is an innovation and a subject to be patented. In this way, TFX MMU consists of 4 large body parts and they are combined"

"The entire body of the MMU is composite. The frames inside are made of titanium and aluminum. The composite coating on MMU has to be produced in one piece. This composite piece is produced at the 6x12m pressure furnaces in TUSAŞ composite facility"

 

[red admiral]

Some contradictions in that statement. It seems pretty conventional metal frames with composite skins that are made into a number of "superblocks" and then joined later? Pretty much like F-35 or Typhoon.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Some contradictions in that statement. It seems pretty conventional metal frames with composite skins that are made into a number of "superblocks" and then joined later? Pretty much like F-35 or Typhoon.

I guess what he actually meant was "entire skin of the body". Anyways, fancy lingos that actually doesn't mean much are to be expected.

 

[Combat-Master]

Some contradictions in that statement. It seems pretty conventional metal frames with composite skins that are made into a number of "superblocks" and then joined later? Pretty much like F-35 or Typhoon.

I guess what he actually meant was "entire skin of the body". Anyways, fancy lingos that actually doesn't mean much are to be expected.

What he is actually touting is that all sections of the MMU/TFX being manufactured vertically as opposed to F-35, which is produced the traditional way - Horizontal assembly, like the mid-section.

 

[red admiral]

What benefits do they expect vertical assembly to give? Easier access to the top skin? But still have to work at height anyway given the size of the blocks

Then it ends up horizontal assembly anyway when you join the blocks

 

[Canardzz]

What benefits do they expect vertical assembly to give? Easier access to the top skin? But still have to work at height anyway given the size of the blocks

Then it ends up horizontal assembly anyway when you join the blocks

Speed...

 

[Canardzz]

TF-X's front landing gear has been installed. Main gears to be installed either tomorrow or next week (conflicting reports).

 

[Combat-Master]

Not related to TFX directly, however - an Indicator of Turkey's Jet Engine development campaign.
Model of Turkey's first afterburning turbofan jet engine with expected 10,000lb of thrust TF-10000 - Stepping stone to TFX 35,000lb thrust engine

 

[bobbymike]

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/...facebook&utm_medium=Sendible&utm_campaign=RSS

 

[Canardzz]

A difficult picture... But by far the best rendition of the nose cone to date. This is the only up to date official rendering of the aircraft.






There are also these brochures but they're pretty much impossible to depict.




(this is the TF-X from the nose btw)

 

[Radonislav]

TF-X is on her gears!

 

[Flyaway]

Could Ukraine be a future customer for the TFX considering the two countries links in the aerospace area.

 

[snne]

Could Ukraine be a future customer for the TFX considering the two countries links in the aerospace area.

Well even if the war is over (and that's a big if) no matter how much investment they'll receive their economy is still going to be in ruins for the next couple of decades. Hell they were even struggling before the war.

If their economy somehow miraculously prospers, then why not; anything's possible. But I do think that in such a scenario, they'd be pressurized to buy from the West considering the amount of support they received especially from the US.

And also accounting the fact that Turkish-Western relations are at an all time low due to a lack of common interests, I see no such scenario in which France or any other country is okay with Turkey stealing a major customer.

They'll most likely receive 2nd hand US F-16s or less likely Swedish Gripens

 

[Canardzz]

So according to some sources the TF-X's engines have been installed and we probably will see the aircraft today. There is also a foreign protocol visit to the factory apparently. We will see...

 

[Canardzz]

No TF-X today. But apparently they fired up her engines yesterday so yay.

 

[snne]

Active electronic X-band scanning radar on the National Combat Aircraft (MMU) detection algorithms that predict the precipitation region and intensity to be used have been developed and delivered to ASELSAN.