Anderson-Greenwood aircraft

[vigair]

The first aircraft design on the drawing board of AGCO is two place low wing monoplane ag 11
when the war ended AGCO worked on the ag 12 low wing monoplane.

Is there any pics or drawings?.

 

[Stargazer]

Never heard of these. Any idea about the approximate date? That could help narrow the search.

 

[Apophenia]

The timing sequence goes something like this:

1940 - BM-10 biplane trainer (for Southern Aircraft Company, now IMCO)
1940 - Anderson, Greenwood and Company (AGCO) formed, Houston, TX
1941 - AG-11 project, abandoned (no materials available)
1941 - AG-12 project begun, abandoned (principals joined Boeing in late 1941)
1945 - AG-12 project resumed but abandoned in favour of AG-14*
1950 - AG-14 prototype (S/N 1, N3901K) flies (June 1950)

http://www.angelfire.com/ks2/janowski/other_aircraft/AG14/HA.html

* I presume that there was no 'AG-13' for superstitious reasons

 

[cluttonfred]

Thanks very much for that link to the great article on the AG-14 by Paul R. Matt from Historic Aviation. Note that the images from the article are included as links at the end, including (not surprisingly given the author) some lovely detail drawings. There are a couple of other interesting articles on that site, including two engineering papers by Greenwood that are very informative. See the complete list at http://www.angelfire.com/ks2/janowski/other_aircraft/AG14/.

 

[Stargazer]

* I presume that there was no 'AG-13' for superstitious reasons

Maybe... but maybe not. Apparently the May 1988 issue of Sport Aviation is supposed to have a five-page article on an "Anderson-Greenwood AG-13"... Could this be the NX37601 pre-prototype with the egg-shaped fuselage? >>> Wrong data. See first post next page.

 

[walter]

Hi Stéphane,
I never read anything about a connection between NX37601 and the AG-14. I think NX37601 was a one-off aircraft built by Mr. Curtis Wright and his Curtis A. Wright Aeronautical Corporation. No relationship with the Curtiss-Wright Corporation, but since it was his own name they could not object. NX37601 was known as Model 21, it had a 125hp Lycoming O-290 engine and first flew February 1947.
Mr. Wright also designed and built the roadable CW-2 Flymobile helicopter (ca. 1945), but I don`t know whether this really flew.
BTW: The FAA certification designation for the AG-14 was AND-51-A and Mr. Anderson also designed the aircraft we know as the Bellanca T-250 Aries.

 

[Jos Heyman]

One of the AG-14s was used to develop the Mississippi State University XAZ-1 Marvellette for the US Army.

The XAZ-1 was a research aircraft to study the aspects of boundary layer control by means of a variable camber wing of a glass fibre construction, which incorporated a perforated surface and suction pumps. The research programme was managed by the Mississippi State University. The single aircraft ordered, carrying serial 62-12147, was built from a Greenwood AC 14 by Parsons Co. and flew for the first time on 16 November 1962. By March 1964 it had made 16 flights following which the aircraft was scrapped. The research programme continued with the MSU XV-11A Marvel. There is no evidence to suggest that the aircraft received a post September 1962 designation in the Tri service designation system and until 1990 the usual reference sources have omitted this designation.
See also Air Enthusiast 41, 1990 p. 49-53

 

[cluttonfred]

That's a typo. As an EAA member I have access to the complete archive of SPORT AVIATION. I checked and the 1988 article is on the AG-14.

 

[Stargazer]

Thanks Mole. The "AG-13" thing sounded nice but I also found it strange that it was only to be found in that one source... So AG-14 it was from the very first pre-prototype.

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks for the reality check Mole!

 

[walter]

Hi Stéphane,
Do you have sources for any relationship between NX37601 and the AG-14? NX37601 was a 4-seater and much heavier then the AG-14 which was developed Texas, while NX37601 originated in the Detroit. MI area.
I think the AG-14 total is 6.

 

[Stargazer]

Hi Stéphane,
Do you have sources for any relationship between NX37601 and the AG-14? NX37601 was a 4-seater and much heavier then the AG-14 which was developed Texas, while NX37601 originated in the Detroit. MI area.
I think the AG-14 total is 6.

Walter, my mistake. The #2 aircraft is still around and has been restored and re-registered N4254M.

Considering #4 was the property of Miss. State University, it is likely the one that was converted into the Marvelette.

However, I am certain of the fact that there were 7 distinct aircraft built. Pictures of all of them exist. Of course the very first prototype is different in shape, but it must be counted as well.

 

[Stargazer]

Here is the updated and corrected list of all six built aircraft:

• prototype = NX80828
• c/n 1 = N3900K
• c/n 2 = N3901K > restored, re-registered as N4254M and still flying
• c/n 3 = N3902K > re-registered as N314AG, restored and still flying
• c/n 4 = N3903K > converted to Miss. State University MA-17 Marvelette (U.S. Army XAZ-1)
• c/n 5 = N3904K > restored and still flying with the same registration

 

[walter]

Hi Stéphane.
I feel it is historically not correct to mark NX37601 as AG-14 pre-prototype or related to the AG-14. Aerofiles lists the aircraft (in my opinion correctly) as the Model 21 or CW-21 by Curtiss Wright. In addition Aerofiles gives the AG-14 POP also as 6.
The 7th AG-14 may have been the airframe used for static tests, but w/o registration and/or s/n .

PS: For NX37061 I donot only rely on Aerofiles. In several searches I conducted I always encountered NX37061 as the CW-21, a bigger and heavier 4-seat aircraft than the 2-seat AG-14.

 

[Apophenia]

... Model 21 or CW-21 by Curtiss Wright...

Curtis A. Wright CW-21 - just to avoid confusion with the Curtiss Wright CW-21 Demon

 

[Stargazer]

Hi Stéphane.
I feel it is historically not correct to mark NX37601 as AG-14 pre-prototype or related to the AG-14. Aerofiles lists the aircraft (in my opinion correctly) as the Model 21 or CW-21 by Curtiss Wright. In addition Aerofiles gives the AG-14 POP also as 6.
The 7th AG-14 may have been the airframe used for static tests, but w/o registration and/or s/n .

PS: For NX37061 I donot only rely on Aerofiles. In several searches I conducted I always encountered NX37061 as the CW-21, a bigger and heavier 4-seat aircraft than the 2-seat AG-14.

Walter, thanks once again for setting the record straight. I saw NX37601 (and NOT -061) mentioned as an AG-14 prototype on no less than THREE different websites [link 1] [link 2] [link 3], and I didn't even think of verifying the information by checking the registration's actual allocation. And why should I, since the last of these is the only site on the web actually DEVOTED to the AG-14?!

Worst of all, I knew the CW-21! Being a Curtiss buff, I've known for a long time about this Curtis imposter... Just never made the connection (there were so many one-offs in that era anyway!). I even read as recently as last week that Mr. Curtis Wright actually managed to build his aircraft inside a hangar belonging to the Curtiss-Wright company, adding to the confusion! How they let him do is anyone's guess. Sorry Walter, I had not read your previous posting about the CW-21 earlier on in page 1, for some reason I skipped it. That would have saved me some trouble...

 

[Stargazer]

Topic renamed to include all Anderson-Greenwood projects and aircraft.

Here is a wonderful plan of the AG-14 by the great Paul Matt:

 

[Stargazer]

And the second plate:

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is the Anderson-Greenwood developed a lightweight aerial target intended to use for
anti-aircraft practice.


Air Pictorial 8/1958


http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2930619.pdf

 

[hesham]

For this company,

there was a Model called 51;

51, 51A 19?? (A11SW) = No data.

http://www.aerofiles.com/_al.html

I think it was a misprint,and maybe they meant AG-15 ?.

 

[Stargazer]

I think it was a misprint,and maybe they meant AG-15 ?.

NO.

 

[hesham]

I think it was a misprint,and maybe they meant AG-15 ?.

NO.

Why not ?.

 

[Stargazer]

Why not ?.

Because if you care to do even a tiny bit of research, you'll find that that Anderson-Greenwood only ever produced two aircraft designs: the AG-14 Space Coupe and the AG-51. However, the The AG-14 was redesignated and re-registered as the Model AND-51 and AND-51A, while the AG-51 became the Bellanca T-250 Aries! IfThe designations AND-51 and -51A are therefore official; if you go to the FAA registers you can easily find that information!!!

It's very strange, hesham, because after so many years of researching aircraft, you still don't seem to know how to use the tools and the information that are readily at your disposal. Instead of always jumping to improbable conclusions and spreading a lot of approximations and mistakes on this forum (which are then repeated on the web) you should take the time to properly search, compare, analyze like the seasoned researcher you ought to have become after all this time!!!

So anyway, both the AG-14 and the T-250 carried the number "51" in their designations at some point, despite the near 25 years between the two, and the fact that there were no aircraft designs in-between (#15 to #50 are said to have been non-aeronautical product designs and tow target components).

 

[hesham]

Hi,

the AND-51 was a registration and not designation model,and of course I know it from long time,but
I couldn't convince as it was from his series,and I don't make a wrong conclusions,it is just a questions,
not facts,so I always put question mark ?.

The mistake is when I said I believe that.

 

[Stargazer]

Hi,

the AND-51 was a registration and not designation model,and of course I know it from long time,but
I couldn't convince as it was from his series

NO. There NEVER was a registration "AND-51". Have you ever seen a photo with that registration? I don't think so!!

Once and for all, there were:

• One AG-14 prototype in 1947 [NX80828] (c/n unknown), which received the Approved Type Certificate 4A1. It was later re-designated as AND-51.
• Five AG-14 production examples in 1950 [N9300K to N9304K] (c/n 1 to 5), later redesignated AND-51-A. Same Approved Type Certificate. (c/n 2) later became [N4254M] and (c/n 3) later became [N314AG].
• One AG-51 prototype in 1973 [N51AG] (c/n 0001), later redesignated as the first Bellanca T-250 Aries It received Approved Type Certificate A11SW. That aircraft (which the FAA claims was built in 1976) was apparently re-registered as [N251AG], although I have never seen any photo of it as such.
• Two more examples built as Bellanca T-250 Aries types, under same Approved Type Certificate. (c/n 0003-80) is [N250DJ] and (c/n 0004-80) is [N77CT]. (c/n 0002) is still a mystery, since there have never been any photos or mention of another Aries. (c/n 0005 to 0007) were reserved but not built.

And that's all! No other Anderson Greenwood aircraft ever built and/or registered!
Also, there are lots of mistakes on the internet, you need to compare, investigate, go to reliable sources, not just pick a designation in the page and flaunt it as you often do, especially without any sources to justify it!

 

[hesham]

OK,thanks.

 

[Corywh]

Model 51 serial 0001 is AG51 N251AG and was the prototype it sits in my hangar. It was converted to a 300 hp fuel injected io540 as part of the T300 project but never made it all the way through certification process. All test flights were done but type certification was never filed for.

serial 0002 was the stress test aircraft and was broken as part of the certification process.

serial 003 is flying in California

serial 004 is N77CT and sits on my hangar

serial 005 was produced and is hanging in a maint hangar in Plainview Texas where the Bellanca dealership used to be

006 and 007 were started but got donated to mechanics schools to be used for teaching only and never flew.

 

[hesham]

Welcome aboard Corywh,

and please what was T300 Project ?.

 

[Corywh]

The T300 was to be the 6 seat 300 hp version of the Aries T250.

 

[hesham]

Many thanks to you Corywh.

 

[Bazinga]

https://flic.kr/p/2hJk9my

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/49049428896/in/photolist-2hJhzrM-2hJk9my

 

[Richard N]

A pristine Anderson Greenwood AG-14 is at the Lone Star Flight Museum on Ellington AFB in South Houston, Texas: https://www.lonestarflight.org/fly/anderson-greenwood-ag-14/

 

[dan_inbox]

https://flic.kr/p/2hJk9my

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/49049428896/in/photolist-2hJhzrM-2hJk9my

Note that the name is Bellanca T-250 Aries, after the zodiacal sign. SDASM has it wrongly spelt.

 

[hesham]

The timing sequence goes something like this:

1940 - BM-10 biplane trainer (for Southern Aircraft Company, now IMCO)
1940 - Anderson, Greenwood and Company (AGCO) formed, Houston, TX
1941 - AG-11 project, abandoned (no materials available)
1941 - AG-12 project begun, abandoned (principals joined Boeing in late 1941)
1945 - AG-12 project resumed but abandoned in favour of AG-14*
1950 - AG-14 prototype (S/N 1, N3901K) flies (June 1950)

http://www.angelfire.com/ks2/janowski/other_aircraft/AG14/HA.html
* I presume that there was no 'AG-13' for superstitious reasons

My dear Apophenia,

are there any drawings to Model 10,11 & 12 ?.

 

[Stargazer]

The timing sequence goes something like this:

1940 - BM-10 biplane trainer (for Southern Aircraft Company, now IMCO)
1940 - Anderson, Greenwood and Company (AGCO) formed, Houston, TX
1941 - AG-11 project, abandoned (no materials available)
1941 - AG-12 project begun, abandoned (principals joined Boeing in late 1941)
1945 - AG-12 project resumed but abandoned in favour of AG-14*
1950 - AG-14 prototype (S/N 1, N3901K) flies (June 1950)

Looks like a neat theory to have the BM-10 in the same sequence as the AG- series... except there was a BM-11, so I'm not sure it holds water... The sole BM-11 Southernaire (NX59783, c/n unknown) was a six-seat high-wing cabin monoplane powered by two 200hp Ranger 6-440 engines, designed and built by Willis C. Brown, who was also the president of the Southern Aircraft Division (of Portable Products Corp.).

Southern was founded in 1940 (and also sometimes appears on registers as the Southern Aircraft Corp.), while Anderson-Greenwood & Co. existed since 1941 in Houston -- where Southern moved in 1947. Other than being in the same city, do you have evidence to purport the notion that the AG- sequence took over from the BM- one? Or that the two companies were even related? I would be very interested to know more.

Also, Southern had two more products in 1946 and 1947: the Southernaire Roadable (NX59711, c/n unknown), a roadable aircraft with twin-boom tail, designed by Ted Hall and considered for possible production; and the XC-1, a two-seat high-wing cabin monoplane with a 130hp Franklin engine (not found in registers, so it could be the same aircraft modified). If the AG- list took over from Southern's own, where would these two fit in your list??

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks Stéphane, I had forgotten about the Southernaire! As for evidence on the BM and AG connection, nothing that I have retained on file ;p

BTW, I had said back in 2022 that the Southernaire was the last of the 'BM' designations and that the Roadable never received a Southern designation. Do you know it that was accurate?
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/southern-airplanes.28603/#post-527377

And to hesham's question ... a Southern Aircraft BM-10 3-view:
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/southern-airplanes.28603/#post-300262

 

[hesham]

And to hesham's question ... a Southern Aircraft BM-10 3-view:
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/southern-airplanes.28603/#post-300262

Many thanks.

 

[Stargazer]

BTW, I had said back in 2022 that the Southernaire was the last of the 'BM' designations and that the Roadable never received a Southern designation. Do you know it that was accurate?
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/southern-airplanes.28603/#post-527377

I have never seen any designation associated with the Roadable.