Submarine news, analysis and projects

covert_shores

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Ahoi shipwrecks,

Starting a general thread on submarine news, analysis and projects which fall outside the scope of the Secret Projects Naval section, even if they do have an air of secrecy and mystery to them.

In recent news Russia launched the fourth Borei class SSBN. This is the first Project 0955A borei-II (or borei-A). Count (or prince) Vladimir.

My analysis. http://www.hisutton.com/Borei-A.html Attached is a schematic I've quickly done. We haven't seen the front end of the boat yet but previous borei reused Akula attack subs bow sections, and although the new boat will be a fresh build and updated, it cannot be too different.

Overall the new boat seems more westernized in design terms,
 

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Even though its missiles were aimed at my cities...I will miss the Typhoons...at least it didn't look like Quasimodo like the other Soviet Boomers.
 
For all the changes from borei to borei a it looks like the pressure hull is very similar. Are these based upon actual open source data? I know Sutton is good at his work.
 
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4346965
The construction of Taiwan’s first indigenous submarine reached a new phase Tuesday (Nov. 16) with an official “keel laying” ceremony.

While submarines do not have a keel, the term, which is common in shipbuilding, was used to denote the completion of a connection between the tower-like structure at the top of the submarine with the hull, website Newtalk reported. Pressure tests were also included in the current phase of the construction, according to the report.
 
Is there a good reason for Taiwan to be building their own submarine instead of
having someone else ?
 
That doesn't surprise me. I wouldn't think that the Chinese would allow them to build
one ether.
 
That doesn't surprise me. I wouldn't think that the Chinese would allow them to build
one ether.

Taiwan builds lots of military equipment that China would probably prefer they did not.

These subs are being built largely with US knowhow. There has been talk over the years of building subs for Taiwan in the United States, but it's challenging, because the USN won't let them be built by yards that also build nuclear subs for fear that certain sensitive tech will migrate. (And these days, the US sub yards are pretty much at their max capacity.)
 
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/17546333/amp
MOSCOW, 18 April. /TASS/. The lead non-nuclear submarine of project 677 (code "Lada") "St. Petersburg" is planned for decommissioning. This was reported to TASS by two sources.

"The St. Petersburg submarine is planned to be decommissioned, since its modernization is very expensive, and a new boat can be built with these funds," the agency's interlocutor in the military-industrial complex said. This information was confirmed by a second source close to the Navy, adding that "the decision on this matter has been made."

TASS has no official confirmation of this information.

Earlier, a source in the military-industrial complex told TASS that the St. Petersburg was in Kronstadt awaiting repairs and modernization.

The lead diesel-electric submarine of project 677 "St. Petersburg" after trial operation, which began in May 2010, in September 2021 became part of the Northern Fleet. It was founded in 2005, its construction was suspended and was resumed only in 2013. The second and third buildings of the project are at different stages of construction.

Another 2 submarines of Project 677 were contracted at the Army-2019 International Military-Technical Forum.
 
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/17546333/amp
MOSCOW, 18 April. /TASS/. The lead non-nuclear submarine of project 677 (code "Lada") "St. Petersburg" is planned for decommissioning. This was reported to TASS by two sources.

"The St. Petersburg submarine is planned to be decommissioned, since its modernization is very expensive, and a new boat can be built with these funds," the agency's interlocutor in the military-industrial complex said. This information was confirmed by a second source close to the Navy, adding that "the decision on this matter has been made."

TASS has no official confirmation of this information.

Earlier, a source in the military-industrial complex told TASS that the St. Petersburg was in Kronstadt awaiting repairs and modernization.

The lead diesel-electric submarine of project 677 "St. Petersburg" after trial operation, which began in May 2010, in September 2021 became part of the Northern Fleet. It was founded in 2005, its construction was suspended and was resumed only in 2013. The second and third buildings of the project are at different stages of construction.

Another 2 submarines of Project 677 were contracted at the Army-2019 International Military-Technical Forum.

Is it the case this class's lead boat just didn't work after the very extended construction and design phase? Are the other two still going to be built?
 
Submarine news fits here? Okay.
Saw a thing about the Type 206A submarine U-17 being transported overland to a museum.
Saw this comment on it,
"
Paolo Messeca
1 hour ago

And now I hope it would be remainded the visitors what use this kind of submarine has been made during WW II
"



(I would put the quote in a quote block except forum software insists on including my text below no matter what I've tried in order to prevent that)

:rolleyes: Unless time travel is real it is most unlikely for "this kind of submarine" which wasn't even laid down until 1970 to have been used in WW2.
 
So nothing interesting
https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/08...clear-submarine-ukraine-just-took-its-secrets
"These documents include the ship’s combat layout, engineering schematics, survival systems, and the organizational structure of the crew. The files also detail procedures for damage control and towing, as well as how the crew handles cargo and casualties.
....
Ukraine’s defense intelligence says the obtained information highlights specific weaknesses in the Knyaz Pozharsky and other submarines of the 955A Borei-A class."

The engineering schematics and damage control stuff potentially gives you access into the design methodology that lets you refine your models of the Borei's performance and physical vulnerability. The whole tranche of data gives you access into where the Russian submarine industry and sub drivers are in comparison to your own guys, and even "orders posted in cabins and compartments" potentially give you psychological insight into the captain and the level of professionalism amongst the crew.

If someone offered me equivalent data for the Su 57 I guarantee I'd be interested on a professional level, I can only presume it's the same for the submarine guys with this.
 
Equally interesting is where the Ukrainians got the data. It all being specific to Knyaz Pozharsky probably* implies it's not a general breach of the Northern Fleet or the SSBN force. Pozharsky was just commissioned, so they could potentially have breached Sevmash's IT, or got someone into Sevmash (and what else might they have accessed?) Or, nightmare for the Russians, they've turned someone on the crew. The absolute best case for the Russians would be someone took all the classified data home on his laptop and the Ukrainians hacked it there.

* Though not guaranteed, HUR might just have cherry-picked the Knyaz Pozharsky data to embarrass Putin after he was at her commissioning last week.
 
I find it interesting, first the hack that struck Naval Group, now info obtained about Boreis, I wonder what's next lol.

I wonder if that's just a coincidence or if these somehow relate to each other
 
The timing of the release seems related, though I suspect the actual hack/intelligence operations were run completely independently at different times.
 
https://news.usni.org/2025/08/22/pe...all-new-construction-programs-under-depsecdef
The Pentagon wants to tap a three-star officer to lead the Navy’s submarine construction effort under Deputy Secretary of Defense Steve Feinberg outlined in a new memo, USNI News has learned.

The memo, issued by Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth on Wednesday, describes the roles and responsibilities of the officer who will oversee the acquisition of all nuclear submarines for a four-year tenure. The officer would also assume control of the submarine program offices currently under the Department of the Navy, four people familiar with the contents of the plan told USNI News.

The new Senate-confirmed submarine direct reporting program manager (DRPM) position will answer directly to the DEPSECDEF while coordinating with the Secretary of the Navy and the Undersecretary of Defense for Acquisition and Sustainment.

The position will work with the director of naval reactors — a four-star, dual-hatted position with the Department of Energy that develops and maintains nuclear reactors for both aircraft carriers and submarines. The new position will develop new submarine requirements in conjunction with the Chief of Naval Operations. Previously, the requirements for new ships and aircraft began with the CNO’s staff. The position will also be responsible for budgeting the maintenance of all in-service submarines, according to the sources.

The Maritime Industrial Base (MIB) office will report in part to the new submarine czar for efforts related to the multi-billion-dollar submarine industrial expansion effort, as well as the assistant secretary of the Navy for research, development and acquisition (RDA) for other industrial base issues, according to sources familiar with the plan.

The new memo follows an extensive review of new submarine construction by former Naval Sea Systems Command commander, retired Vice Adm. Kevin McCoy, who was undertaking a complete review of new submarine construction. McCoy, who is the chief nuclear officer at nuclear reactor manufacturer BWXT, has been touring nuclear yards as part of his assessment.

The move from the Pentagon comes as the Navy is years behind in submarine construction on both the Virginia-class nuclear attack boats and Columbia-class nuclear ballistic missile submarines. Contractors General Dynamics Electric Boat and HII Newport News Shipbuilding are delivering about 1.3 Virginia-class boats a year — far short of the 2.3 rate the Navy needs to support the U.S. commitment to provide three to five Virginia submarines to the Royal Australian Navy under the AUKUS agreement. Likewise, District of Columbia (SSBN-826) is tracking up to two years late, largely due to supplier issues.

The Navy has poured billions into improving the throughput of the submarine industrial base through the MIB and the non-profit organization Blue-Forge Alliance, which was awarded an almost $1 billion contract for “uplifting the U.S. submarine industrial base” last year.

Naval analyst Bryan Clark said moving the responsibility for new submarine construction could be positive.

“The Navy’s submarine leadership in the acquisition world has not done a great job,” Clark told USNI News on Friday. “There have been billions and billions spent on this effort. It seems like they’ve turned a corner but it’s unclear what the [return on investment] is on their part. It seems like there has been a lack of accountability to where this money has gone.”

Last month, the Pentagon announced Space Force’s Gen. Michael Guetlein was tapped to lead the massive Golden Dome missile defense shield as a DRPM to the deputy defense secretary’s office.

A defense official told USNI News on Friday the department intended to install a total of three DRPMs — subs, Golden Dome and one for the Air Force’s LGM-35 Sentinel next-generation intercontinental ballistic missile program.

Breaking Defense first reported on the possible Sentinel program DRPM earlier this month.
 
It occurs that the SSN/SSGN fleet of the Russian Navy, which currently comprises several Soviet legacy designs alongside modern Russian ones, is meant to be homogenized in the near future. With the Yasen/Yasen-M Class replacing the remaining Akulas, Sierras and Oscars in the Russian fleet. While I personally view 10 years as optimistic to withdraw all of these submarines currently in service, I believe the overall shift is likely to occur, as it is already happening. With legacy Soviet submarines being discarded while new submarines are being constructed. It is to be seen if these legacy vessels will be replaced on a 1/1 basis, or if the number of replacement submarines will be lower. It should also not be discounted that Russia is heavily invested in the UUV world and will most likely seek to bolster their submarine with more of these systems as well. It's also relevant to keep in mind that a new SSN is in active development. Meanwhile on the SSBN front, the Delta-IVs are being kept well into the 2030s, with the Borei/Borei-A submarines serving as the backbone of the Russian seabased nuclear deterrent.
All nuclear-powered submarines of the Russian Navy will be replaced by Project 885/885M (Yasen/Yasen-M) submarines within the next 10 years, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy Admiral Alexander Moiseyev said.

"Regarding multipurpose submarines, the primary project going forward – the Yasen/YasenM, designed by the Malakhit Design Bureau of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) – will replace all third-generation submarines currently in the Navy’s inventory within the next decade: Projects 971, 945, and 949," Moiseyev noted in an interview with the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper.
https://tass.com/defense/2104073
 
The Delta-IV SSBN 'Karelia' has completed it's refit and is heading out to see again. It's expecting to remain in service until 2038

https://flot.com/2026/СеверныйФлот6/
That's a bit of a stretch for a sub commissioned in 1989.

If the crew took obsessive pride in the boat and kept her in immaculate condition I could see a 40 year service life. But even in the USN, not all subs have been taken care of to that standard.
 
* Though not guaranteed, HUR might just have cherry-picked the Knyaz Pozharsky data to embarrass Putin after he was at her commissioning last week.
I hope Typhoon blueprints and other tech can come out, for history’s sake.

A lot of brilliant work may be lost in the name of security.
 
That's a bit of a stretch for a sub commissioned in 1989.

If the crew took obsessive pride in the boat and kept her in immaculate condition I could see a 40 year service life. But even in the USN, not all subs have been taken care of to that standard.
In service until 2038 doesn't necessarily mean that the submarine will head out to sea until that time. The last years of it's service life can very much consist of sitting at the pier, albeit in readiness, given that it's missiles can hit CONUS from it's homeport. Which I suspect what will happen, have the submarine do patrols as long as possible and have it as a floating missile silo after that.
 
In service until 2038 doesn't necessarily mean that the submarine will head out to sea until that time. The last years of it's service life can very much consist of sitting at the pier, albeit in readiness, given that it's missiles can hit CONUS from it's homeport. Which I suspect what will happen, have the submarine do patrols as long as possible and have it as a floating missile silo after that.
There’s also nothing to say that a submarine has to actually be underway during a deterrent patrol. A while back, photos of the marine growth on the hull of a certain non-Russian, Non-America, Non-Chinese, Non-French, Non-Indian, third party SSBN proved that it had been sitting stationary, underwater, for months on end during a deterrent patrol. It goes to show that established nuclear powers can use SSBNs as stationary missile launching barges. The high specific heat of water means that a stationary SSBN on the bottom in a protected “bastion” safe from enemy SSNs is a lot less vulnerable than any concrete ICBM silo.

Or maybe the Indian concept of a ballistic missile adapted to drop a lightweight torpedo is actually a good idea?
 
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