SSN collision in Indo-Pacific (USS Connecticut)

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Pacific Fleet release: "The Seawolf-class fast-attack submarine USS Connecticut (SSN 22) struck an object while submerged on the afternoon of Oct. 2, while operating in international waters in the Indo-Pacific region. The safety of the crew remains the Navy’s top priority. There are no life-threatening injuries.

The submarine remains in a safe and stable condition. USS Connecticut’s nuclear propulsion plant and spaces were not affected and remain fully operational. The extent of damage to the remainder of the submarine is being assessed. The U.S. Navy has not requested assistance. The incident will be investigated.”



Not the first time something like this has happened, but probably isn't ideal timing with the current situation re: Taiwan


USNI is the only one I see carrying this, and they don't have anything of substance outside of the short release.
https://news.usni.org/2021/10/07/br...uss-connecticut-suffers-underwater-in-pacific
 
Maybe it was an overboard and sunken container that attained neutral buoyancy...somehow. Yeah, I'm not buying it either.

Is it just me or does the timing of a Seawolf suddenly needing yard time raise a red flag?
 
Opportunistic Minnow said:
Maybe it was an overboard and sunken container that attained neutral buoyancy...somehow. Yeah, I'm not buying it either.

Is it just me or does the timing of a Seawolf suddenly needing yard time raise a red flag?
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It's just you.

There are any number of things she might have hit. My money is on some sort of terrain feature, like San Francisco.

If it was a collision with a Chinese vessel, they would be screaming bloody murder about it by now.

Edit: pretty good article from the Guardian (citing a version of a Washington Post story that I can't find right now). They cite Navy sources confirming that whatever Connecticut hit wasn't Chinese and wasn't another sub.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...ged-object-in-south-china-sea-uss-connecticut
 
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TomS said:
It's just you.
Click to expand...
Ouch. Put me in my place didn't ya.

It is entirely possible that it was another San Francisco incident, perhaps even likely but you will excuse me if a "navy source" ruling out a collision with another vessel doesn't in fact rule it out for me. Pinch of salt and all that.

Whether enemy action or Sod's (Murphy's) Law, the timing is still noteworthy. An operational Seawolf would be handy in the Pacific about now.
 
Opportunistic Minnow said:
TomS said:
It's just you.
Click to expand...
Ouch. Put me in my place didn't ya.

It is entirely possible that it was another San Francisco incident, perhaps even likely but you will excuse me if a "navy source" ruling out a collision with another vessel doesn't in fact rule it out for me. Pinch of salt and all that.

Whether enemy action or Sod's (Murphy's) Law, the timing is still noteworthy. An operational Seawolf would be handy in the Pacific about now.
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Like the F-22, it's a shame we didn't buy more of them. Carter isn't an SSN anymore, Connecticut out of commission, and Seawolf all by herself. (If she's not tied up at the pier.)
 
Opportunistic Minnow said:
TomS said:
It's just you.
Click to expand...
Ouch. Put me in my place didn't ya.

It is entirely possible that it was another San Francisco incident, perhaps even likely but you will excuse me if a "navy source" ruling out a collision with another vessel doesn't in fact rule it out for me. Pinch of salt and all that.

Whether enemy action or Sod's (Murphy's) Law, the timing is still noteworthy. An operational Seawolf would be handy in the Pacific about now.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's unfortunate timing. But the jump to "they are probably lying" is really unhelpful.

It also doesn't actually jibe with observed reality. I can't think of an actual collision involving a US warship in the last 20-plus years that wasn't acknowledged very promptly. Because there is no upside in denying an event that the other party will also know about and be able to disclose when it suits them.
 
Well in fairness, I haven't really jumped anywhere. I'm just not willing to rule anything out. There is a difference. A wry dose of scepticism (cynicism?) for the official line is no bad thing IMO. There were certainly enough unexplained Sub-bumps during the Cold War to justify some doubt. Speculation is no crime.
 
TomS said:
.....claims that they hit anything from a Chinese submarine to Cthulhu to space aliens
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Now that I will readily, happily rule out! How do you pronounce that anyway? I'm glad the sailors are safe. That's the main thing.
 
Okay out of my league when it comes to boats and such, but I agree it is most likely a navigation error into terrain. That said, and at the risk of sounding conspiratorial, I have been told that back in the Cold War days the US Navy and the Soviet Navy had a number of instances of "bumping into each other", that remained official state information. It would seem more difficult to keep that level of information security in this day and age, but if the US Navy and the PLAN are indeed "practicing" on each other it is more feasible, that the incident would remain close hold.

... now where is my tin foil? You know they are going to microwave my brain now.
 
yasotay said:
Okay out of my league when it comes to boats and such, but I agree it is most likely a navigation error into terrain. That said, and at the risk of sounding conspiratorial, I have been told that back in the Cold War days the US Navy and the Soviet Navy had a number of instances of "bumping into each other", that remained official state information. It would seem more difficult to keep that level of information security in this day and age, but if the US Navy and the PLAN are indeed "practicing" on each other it is more feasible, that the incident would remain close hold.

... now where is my tin foil? You know they are going to microwave my brain now.
Click to expand...

Thing is, the Chinese are publicly demanding information on what happened, because they claim it's in their area of interest. If they were involved and there was some tacit agreement to suppress that information, they probably wouldn't be yelling so loudly about it.
 
yasotay said:
Okay out of my league when it comes to boats and such, but I agree it is most likely a navigation error into terrain. That said, and at the risk of sounding conspiratorial, I have been told that back in the Cold War days the US Navy and the Soviet Navy had a number of instances of "bumping into each other", that remained official state information.
Click to expand...
They talk about at least on of those here:

https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Mans-Bluff-Submarine-Espionage/dp/1610393589
 
TomS said:
yasotay said:
Okay out of my league when it comes to boats and such, but I agree it is most likely a navigation error into terrain. That said, and at the risk of sounding conspiratorial, I have been told that back in the Cold War days the US Navy and the Soviet Navy had a number of instances of "bumping into each other", that remained official state information. It would seem more difficult to keep that level of information security in this day and age, but if the US Navy and the PLAN are indeed "practicing" on each other it is more feasible, that the incident would remain close hold.

... now where is my tin foil? You know they are going to microwave my brain now.
Click to expand...

Thing is, the Chinese are publicly demanding information on what happened, because they claim it's in their area of interest. If they were involved and there was some tacit agreement to suppress that information, they probably wouldn't be yelling so loudly about it.
Click to expand...
"NOYFB" - US Navy
 
TomS said:
Fair. I was maybe a bit harsh. My feeds today have been filled with claims that they hit anything from a Chinese submarine to Cthulhu to space aliens.

In the realm of semi-official news, the sub is now reportedly in Guam waters. Guessing they might be waiting for daylight to bring her into port.

https://www.postguam.com/news/local...cle_ff1049bc-2815-11ec-8535-2f0c07c6a9d9.html
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Just as well they didn’t see Cthulhu before they hit him…

And does seeing him after you’ve run him over still drive you mad?
 
kaiserd said:
Just as well they didn’t see Cthulhu before they hit him…
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Someone did . . .


"Briden looked back and went mad, laughing shrilly as he kept on laughing at intervals till death found him one night in the cabin whilst Johansen was wandering deliriously."

cheers,
Robin.
 
yasotay said:
most likely a navigation error into terrain
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It doesn't even need a navigation error, plenty of undocumented seamounts out there still. IIRC the San Francisco incident correctly, that seamount wasn't documented - the command crew were pulled not because they knew it was there, but because their transit plan wasn't cautious enough.
 
TomS said:
It's just you.

There are any number of things she might have hit. My money is on some sort of terrain feature, like San Francisco.

If it was a collision with a Chinese vessel, they would be screaming bloody murder about it by now.

Edit: pretty good article from the Guardian (citing a version of a Washington Post story that I can't find right now). They cite Navy sources confirming that whatever Connecticut hit wasn't Chinese and wasn't another sub.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...ged-object-in-south-china-sea-uss-connecticut
Click to expand...

The Navy hasn't always been very "forthcoming" when it comes to Submarine affairs.

Plenty of Cold War stories from submariners to substantiate that, and we are in the midst of a new Cold War.
 
With all the sonar and other equipment on these subs why didn't they
see what was around them before the collision .
 
muttly said:
With all the sonar and other equipment on these subs why didn't they
see what was around them before the collision .
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Sonar is like shining a torch, everyone can see you from 50 miles away. I'm not sure what other equipment you mean.

AFAIK subs run blind - thats why Navies have mapping ships.
 
I was thinking passive sonar and had not considered everyone picking up
your own sonar . Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I didn't know
they ran blind.
 
Surprised we haven't gotten a picture yet; there are rumors that the bow dome is pretty much wiped out, which is what you'd expect in a CSIT (Controlled Steaming Into Terrain -- a term I just made up)

Some enterprising Internet open-source IMINT types think they may have found her on the surface headed for Guam. Resolution too low to know for sure and definitely too poor to even guess at damage.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1447174736157593600
View: https://twitter.com/pjonesbilly/status/1447174736157593600
 
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Maybe an artificial guyot-seamount? China has done huge construction projects-maybe dump rocks in a trench a sub might use. Think dragon's teeth for subs...and they got lucky. Azorian from the bottom up.
 
I vaguely recall a techno novel (by Clancy or Cussler?) that begins with a US nuclear submarine in the Pacific randomly running into the trunk of a redwood tree destined for Japan for use in the construction of a ceremonial shrine that fell off a freighter during a storm...
 
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I know it but cannot get the title. I have a feeling it the clancy novel where computers in waaall st are wiped out causing the market to crash. At the end of the novel, the now president Ryan say's, "If there is no record it never happened, we reset to just before the crash".
 
Navy Fires 2 Top Officers of Submarine Damaged in Collision.

The Navy said Thursday it fired the two senior officers of a nuclear-powered attack submarine that was damaged in an underwater collision last month in the South China Sea. A sailor who served as a senior enlisted adviser to the commander and the executive officer was also removed from his position

The actions were taken by Vice Adm. Karl Thomas, commander of the U.S. 7th Fleet, based in Japan.

“Thomas determined sound judgement, prudent decision-making and adherence to required procedures in navigation planning, watch team execution and risk management could have prevented the incident,” according to a 7th Fleet statement.

As a result, the statement said Thomas relieved Cmdr. Cameron Aljilani as commanding officer, Lt. Cmdr. Patrick Cashin as executive officer, and Master Chief Sonar Technician Cory Rodgers as chief of the boat, “due to loss of confidence.” The chief of the boat is the senior enlisted adviser to the commander and the executive officer.

https://apnews.com/article/china-south-china-sea-9712f6e5f4181fe401c5b75f97d4a682https://news.usni.org/2021/11/04/us...-in-south-china-sea-due-to-lose-of-confidence
 
Well that was inevitable. One wonders what the incentive to be a sub driver is with a draconian sword of Damocles in every Admiral's pocket. How exactly are you meant to avoid an uncharted seamount? Perhaps Karl can show us all how it is done?

What's American for scapegoat? Fall guy I guess?
 
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