SSN collision in Indo-Pacific (USS Connecticut)

Foo Fighter

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Something uncharted, in an area where there is a real threat, hostilities in the open or not. While trying to increase effectiveness of the crew and the boat. How on earth can they fire these people? If you drive a boat on to charted hazards perhaps but that is not the case here. How about firing the folk who decided not to chart the areas of potential conflict knowing boats would be operating there at some time?
 

Trident

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I can understand the sentiment, but it may not be so simple. Presumably areas not accurately charted are denoted by appropriate warnings, with procedures in place to adopt certain precautionary measures when sailing in such waters. If the officers responsible failed to take these precautions (especially if the investigation also indicates that this affected the outcome), that would constitute legitimate grounds for relieving them of their duties.
 

Opportunistic Minnow

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Mmmmmm..... maybe so but has one of these SUBSMACK inquiries ever not exacted it's pound of flesh? There is never anything wrong with the boat and never anything wrong with the doctrine!

Pilot error...again. Really? Might be time for a little oceanographic survey out that way then COMSUBCHUMP. :rolleyes:
 

martinbayer

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Well that was inevitable. One wonders what the incentive to be a sub driver is with a draconian sword of Damocles in every Admiral's pocket. How exactly are you meant to avoid an uncharted seamount? Perhaps Karl can show us all how it is done?

What's American for scapegoat? Fall guy I guess?
SONAR. If I had to choose between not being potentially detected in peacetime in international waters or avoiding an accident in literally uncharted territory, I'd choose the latter any day of the millennium. It's like driving on an unfamiliar country road through the woods in the middle of a moonless night with the headlights off - simply irresponsible. I'm not a military apologist by any stretch of the imagination, but the USN made the only logical call here.
 
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Orionblamblam

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Moose

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When 711 T-boned a seamount, CO was relieved despite an otherwise stellar record. While there was plenty of off-boat blame for that incident, the investigation found the navigation practices onboard were....not great. Turns out it's possible to be a good leader and good person, and still be bad at driving subs through dangerous waters.
 

sferrin

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There are probably procedures for operating in a way that reduces the likelihood of grounding in uncharted waters. Were they followed? Without knowing what they were supposed to do, compared to what they did do, accusations of "scapegoating" are just guesses. Less informed than a basketball fan screaming at the refs from the nose-bleed seats.
 

shin_getter

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Maybe submarines should just run LIDAR. If a solar powered satellite from OUTTTERRRR space can measure the seafloor, a submarine with nuclear reactors pumping stupid power.....
 

Opportunistic Minnow

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......accusations of "scapegoating" are just guesses. Less informed than a basketball fan screaming at the refs from the nose-bleed seats.
Thank you for that....picturesque depiction of me. For reference, I've never watched a basketball game in my life.

You are correct that my assertion of scapegoating is a guess in this instance but it does happen. BoIs tend to have vested interests. The phrase "for the good of the service" gets uttered and the military-industrial complex rolls ever onwards. We wouldn't want our multi-billion $ boats to look vulnerable or flawed in any way or jeopardize the Admirals' consultancy position with the Rubber-Ducky Corporation coming in 3 years would we? So the most inexpensive and expendable component, humans, are efficiently disposed of. All is then well again. The fallout never even brushes the more braided shoulder-boards, does it?

Operating an SSN in the littorals is a gamble. The USN rolled the dice and these 3 men lost. It comes with the job. Doesn't mean it doesn't stink.

Now, if you disagree with my assertions, that's fine, even expected but as for asserting my being "less informed"? Isn't that making an ill-informed assumption while decrying same? Oh, the irony.
 
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sferrin

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Now, if you disagree with my assertions, that's fine, even expected but as for asserting my being "less informed"? Isn't that making an ill-informed assumption while decrying same? Oh, the irony.

"Connecticut commanding officer Cmdr. Cameron Aljilani, executive officer Lt. Cmdr. Patrick Cashin and Chief of the Boat Cory Rodgers were removed from their positions at the direction of U.S. 7th Fleet commander Vice Adm. Karl Thomas.

The reliefs are “due to loss of confidence. Thomas determined sound judgement, prudent decision-making, and adherence to required procedures in navigation planning, watch team execution and risk management could have prevented the incident,” reads a statement from the Navy.
“Capt. John Witte will assume duties as interim Commanding Officer. Cmdr. Joe Sammur will assume duties as interim Executive Officer. Command Master Chief Paul Walters will assume duties as interim Chief of the Boat.”"


I'm sorry, you were saying?

 

Opportunistic Minnow

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Parroting the official line doesn't necessarily make it so! You are, of course, free to believe what you will, just as I am free to see more "shades of grey". Despite my efforts, I was trying to avoid that cliche!
 

jeffb

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This is an old Naval story, if you run your boat aground during peace time, it's a desk job for you.
 

Orionblamblam

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Do the subs have windows that can be seen out of when submerged ?

All the *best* subs have great big windows up front.

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sferrin

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Parroting the official line doesn't necessarily make it so! You are, of course, free to believe what you will, just as I am free to see more "shades of grey". Despite my efforts, I was trying to avoid that cliche!
Instead you'll embrace the cliche' of automatically believing the conspiracy theory. Uhm, okay. You do you Boo Boo.
 

aonestudio

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publiusr

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Now, I just read about a new holographic camera (synthetic wavelength holography) out of Northwestern University. Phys.org has a blurb about possible underwater use.

Might even replace a periscope.

It would be nice if a sub could detect objects above it..maybe even being able to hit aircraft one day.

I also seem to remember talk of a passive milimetric wave camera that could look through fog. Perfect for storm chasers.
 

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