Social/Political arguments on the forum (was: I am leaving)

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Sorry to hear that too.

I'm sad to see the forum turned into a fighting arena,

Did we surpassed a new red line (tribal ideology) with this thread?
 
Archibald said:
What the frack happened ? Couldn't find anything..
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It was here Star Wars/Star Trek/SF thread

Orionblamblam said:
It wasn't ideology, it was a refusal to understand that some people have different opinions... and a refusal to understand that "my issues" are not "everyone else's issues."
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I saw some posts with references to opposed ideologies. That's why I'd ask to avoid some volatile subjects, like ideology, because different opinions end in personal confrontation. International community, as we are, make things worse because of communication, cultural or whatever bias from our particular environments.
 
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I'm coming round, but everything is fuzzy, and a strange metallic taste in my mouth.....
 
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Nothing international.
 
A political argument about "SJW", "antifa", ;BLM' and 'Jan 6 insurrection' on the sci-fi thread that got way out of control between Orionblamblam and dannydale.

I would remind everyone of the forum rules - in particular

  • If you feel that a post is in the wrong section, is pointlessly stupid, or otherwise obectionable, report it using the "report" button found in each post and explain what the problem is. Your compaint will be reviewed by a moderator as soon as practicable. Don't jump in and post replies in the topic.
It takes two opponents to sustain an argument. This was a clear demonstration of why the correct move is to report and not respond. The argument got more heated until one of the participants decided to leave the forum.

I am losing patience at the inability to avoid the topics of Joe Biden, Democrats vs Republicans, woke", "SJW", "Antifa", "BLM".,'alt-right", "Capitol insurrection" on the forum. It it obvious that some forum members are at wide disagreement on these issues.

WHY DO WE NEED TO DISCUSS THESE TOPICS on a forum Unbuilt Projects and Aerospace Technology?

I'm going to specifically ban discussions like these in the forum rules and going forward I will be issuing bans to people who continue to post.
 
Political, religious and nationalistic posts are discouraged. Specific topics to avoid include US politics in general, anything about "SJWs" and "woke", antifa, Black Lives Matter, and other social/political commentary unrelated to the forum core subject.
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Amended the rule.
 
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I had to google SJW......Social Justice Warrior

What any of it had to do with Star wars I dont know.
 
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sublight is back said:
I have been here ten years and these problems always seem to revolve around your boy Orionblamblam, why do you think that is?
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I have tried not to ban people based solely on differences in political beliefs, but some people seem unable to leave their political views at the door. Scott Lowther has contributed some excellent work on unbuilt projects as publisher and author. There are some people on the opposite side of the political divide who, less obviously, poke at trigger points and report even fairly innocuous posts by people they disagree with.

I have however reached the end point of tolerance on this this issue. If users continue to misbehave I may close The Bar section.
 
...anyone posting this thread in this fashion was asking for more drama, and frankly I have seen more fights start by left leaning folks posting political opinions assuming everyone thinks like they do. Why is orionblamblam getting the crap end of the stick?

Instead of making a new thread huffing about offense just nuke the thread or report.

And also star trek and science fiction in general has always been political. Political fights happen. Especially now that many writers in the genre have taken to a new kind of leftist ideology that is particularly prickly. I'm surprised more fights haven't started over it.

Edit: had to add new thought
 
overscan (PaulMM) said:
sublight is back said:
I have been here ten years and these problems always seem to revolve around your boy Orionblamblam, why do you think that is?
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I have tried not to ban people based solely on differences in political beliefs, but some people seem unable to leave their political views at the door. Scott Lowther has contributed some excellent work on unbuilt projects as publisher and author. There are some people on the opposite side of the political divide who, less obviously, poke at trigger points and report even fairly innocuous posts by people they disagree with.

I have however reached the end point of tolerance on this this issue. If users continue to misbehave I may close The Bar section.
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Nope. The ten years of garbage that I have witnessed has nothing whatsoever to do with his politics, but his trollish behavior of poisoning any topic that he does not like or cannot take control of. Would you like me to dig through the archives and start chronicling the systematic abuse?
 
TMA1 said:
...anyone posting this thread in this fashion was asking for more drama, and frankly I have seen more fights start by left leaning folks posting political opinions assuming everyone thinks like they do. Why is orionblamblam getting the crap end of the stick?

Instead of making a new thread huffing about offense just nuke the thread or report.

And also star trek and science fiction in general has always been political. Political fights happen. Especially now that many writers in the genre have taken to a new kind of leftist ideology that is particularly prickly. I'm surprised more fights haven't started over it.

Edit: had to add new thought
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This is not true. Why do my posts keep getting removed?
 
Paraphrasing a distant memory, someone once said that if one can tell whether a reporter is right wing or left wing, then they are of no use. In this forum, which is multinational, point-scoring for one tribe or another undermines its very foundation.

Inevitably technology is embedded in politics and economics, but it's possible to describe a phenomenon without being enthralled by it. Considering the purposes of much of the machinery we discuss here, that should be clear. Indeed, the discussion of AUKUS is perfectly civil.

SF is a remarkably useful medium for scenarios and thought experiments. In it's 100th Anniversary of Flight issue, AvWeek listed HG Wells high on its list of the 100 people who had most influenced aviation. I personally would name Stanislaw Lem (and probably Peter Watts) as having similar importance in other fields too. Seeing it discussed as a series of thought experiments stimulates my imagination, but seeing it degenerate into tribal mythology with demands about what it 'should' do has me looking for the exit. IMO, the latter is certainly not appropriate here specifically.
 
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sublight is back said:
TMA1 said:
...anyone posting this thread in this fashion was asking for more drama, and frankly I have seen more fights start by left leaning folks posting political opinions assuming everyone thinks like they do. Why is orionblamblam getting the crap end of the stick?

Instead of making a new thread huffing about offense just nuke the thread or report.

And also star trek and science fiction in general has always been political. Political fights happen. Especially now that many writers in the genre have taken to a new kind of leftist ideology that is particularly prickly. I'm surprised more fights haven't started over it.

Edit: had to add new thought
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This is not true. Why do my posts keep getting removed?
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I sent you a private conversation.
 
I would suggest Space battle forum(one user here I know is a moderator over there) or reddit if your more of a progressive that aligns politically left or choose AR15.com if your more conservative leaning politically right. Dont know if that helps to keep politics away here by just giving more options and choices for users here. I am personally staying away from foreign military threads for my own good along with politics in general and more interested in space projects.
 
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tequilashooter said:
I would suggest Space battle forum(one user here I know is a moderator over there) or reddit if your more of a progressive that aligns politically left or choose AR15.com if your more conservative leaning politically right. Dont know if that helps to keep politics away here by just giving more options and choices for users here. I am personally staying away from foreign military threads for my own good along with politics in general and more interested in space projects.
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Special access programs on Reddit does not lean politically right or left.
 
overscan (PaulMM) said:
I have however reached the end point of tolerance on this this issue. If users continue to misbehave I may close The Bar section.
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I think the Bar was created to provide a place for topics which were not connected to projects. If the Bar gets closed, then there could be a risk of off-topic posts coming back into the main topic areas.

Looking at the first page of the Bar, I can see only one post that has become controversial, though I can't comment directly on how things came to a head as things were cleaned up by the time I woke up this morning.

The vast majority of other posts deal with things of interest to the generally technically-minded folk of this forum: battery technology, new materials, cars, incidents involving tech, astronomy, obituaries, geopolitical issues, navy news and tactics, military matters, and some "fun" posts.

They're not on-topic for the main part of the forum, but they're what a lot of secret projects folk are interested in and talk about. Personally speaking, the "New Materials" topic is a goldmine for me, and I'm sure other topics are for other members.

For me the Bar is a nice place to keep up-to-date on many of the things that interest me, and provides a clear separation from serious project discussions. And being honest, with the lack of chances to socialize normally in this new era, I do enjoy having non-serious discussions with like-minded members.
 
It’s a shame to see another contributor driven away by the unreasonable but unaccountable actions of another.
It’s an unfortunate fact that the forums rules are not applied equally and certain contributors know they can consistently get away with flouting them and can exploit this website to push their far-right politics (and general troll-like behaviour).
The fact that this is occurring simultaneously with this website and relevant administrators are also enthusiastically assisting these contributors in selling their books, and the fact that this does not appear to prompt any (self) moderation of these contributors behaviour speaks to the lack of underlying respect and muddled thinking going on.
And it is genuinely frustrating and upsetting that contributors who also massively value this site and are trying to do the right thing are treated with a false equivalence and evident discourtesy while the behaviour noted above is going on simultaneously.
 
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kaiserd said:
It’s a shame to see another contributor driven away by the unreasonable but unaccountable actions of another.
It’s an unfortunate fact that the forums rules are not applied equally and certain contributors know they can consistently get away with flouting them and can exploit this website to push their far-right politics (and general troll-like behaviour).
The fact that this is occurring simultaneously with this website and relevant administrators are also enthusiastically assisting these contributors in selling their books, and the fact that this does not appear to prompt any moderation of these contributors behaviour speaks to the lack of underlying respect and muddled thinking going on.
And it is genuinely frustrating and upsetting that contributors who also massively value this site and are trying to do the right thing are treated with a false equivalence and evident discourtesy while the behaviour noted above is going on simultaneously.
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VOICE OF REASON.
Strong words that will be controversial for sure but they are necessary.
Feeling the same - and you have 100% support from me.
 
overscan (PaulMM) said:
going forward I will be issuing bans to people who continue to post.
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Please expand that to any vile behaviour, not just certain topics. It is vital that the cumulative style and persistence of aggressive behaviour be taken into account, as much as the individual incident or topic. And please, please enforce it.

overscan (PaulMM) said:
If users continue to misbehave I may close The Bar section.
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Please don't do that. The Bar is a necessary part of our community. See above for effective remedy.

overscan (PaulMM) said:
"let he who is without sin cast the first stone".
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The senior admin is by definition he who is without sin; it is his personal example which defines sin. Let him cast his stones with impartiality and deadly accuracy.

Nobody closes a pub because fights break out on a Friday night. They just eject the miscreants. I have known several, er, gentlemen, who were banned from all the local pubs - none of which needed to close. The landlord will not moralize at a drunk about casting stones, just because he dobs in a worse one.

Moral: You really, really have to get tough on members who get out of hand, no matter how senior or "important" or beloved they may be. Community-wreckers are never as important or loved as the community they wreck. Send them a blazing warning and if that fails, eject them good and proper. Simply trying to contain a hothead who cannot contain themself never works, they just offer mealy-mouthed "who, me?" false innocence, or at best false contrition, and then go back to their old ways.
 
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I have updated the forum rules in light of recent incidents and these discussions. I invite all users to reread them, even if you've been here since the dawn of time.


From today, all users who breach forum rules will receive a warning. Repeated warnings will result in your posts being moderated. Some users are already on final warnings and will be moderated with another warnable offence.

This means, like a new starter, your posts will be reviewed by a moderator to ensure that they don't breach forum guidelines before they go live on the site. You can still post on the forum, with a bit of a delay, but hopefully you'll think about whether the post is going to breach guidelines before submitting it. If you can demonstrate reformed behaviour, your posting privileges may be restored. Otherwise, your account may be deleted.

Increasing divisions in society are leading to a situation where our differences seem irreconcilable. Note that some of the people most in favour of handing out bans are themselves very often the subject of repeated reports of bad behaviour themselves. Hence, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

If you feel the rules are not being applied fairly in future please cite specific incidents and the moderator team can discuss them.

This topic is locked so people can cool down a bit.
 
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