Current RuAF light fighter projects

[Geo]

... there will definitely be new information about UAC's LFI/PLIB.

Why "definitely"?

Cooperation continues, but the contract has not yet been signed. For now.
Manturov for Kommersant:
— Что конкретно вы будете обсуждать с руководством ОАЭ? Ранее говорилось, что Россия и ОАЭ продолжают обсуждать сделку по Су-35 и совместное создание легкого истребителя пятого поколения.

— Могу сказать без конкретики по обозначенным вами темам: у нас есть двусторонняя повестка и есть совместные проекты. Но мы стараемся ничего не озвучивать первыми до достижения договоренностей с другой стороной.
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4701676

 

[Deino]

... there will definitely be new information about UAC's LFI/PLIB.

Why "definitely"?

Cooperation continues, but the contract has not yet been signed. For now.
Manturov for Kommersant:
— Что конкретно вы будете обсуждать с руководством ОАЭ? Ранее говорилось, что Россия и ОАЭ продолжают обсуждать сделку по Су-35 и совместное создание легкого истребителя пятого поколения.

— Могу сказать без конкретики по обозначенным вами темам: у нас есть двусторонняя повестка и есть совместные проекты. Но мы стараемся ничего не озвучивать первыми до достижения договоренностей с другой стороной.
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4701676

Still no news at IDEX?

 

[Geo]

... there will definitely be new information about UAC's LFI/PLIB.

Why "definitely"?

Cooperation continues, but the contract has not yet been signed. For now.
Manturov for Kommersant:
— Что конкретно вы будете обсуждать с руководством ОАЭ? Ранее говорилось, что Россия и ОАЭ продолжают обсуждать сделку по Су-35 и совместное создание легкого истребителя пятого поколения.

— Могу сказать без конкретики по обозначенным вами темам: у нас есть двусторонняя повестка и есть совместные проекты. Но мы стараемся ничего не озвучивать первыми до достижения договоренностей с другой стороной.
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4701676

Still no news at IDEX?

No.

 

[Geo]

... there will definitely be new information about UAC's LFI/PLIB.

Why "definitely"?

Cooperation continues, but the contract has not yet been signed. For now.
Manturov for Kommersant:
— Что конкретно вы будете обсуждать с руководством ОАЭ? Ранее говорилось, что Россия и ОАЭ продолжают обсуждать сделку по Су-35 и совместное создание легкого истребителя пятого поколения.

— Могу сказать без конкретики по обозначенным вами темам: у нас есть двусторонняя повестка и есть совместные проекты. Но мы стараемся ничего не озвучивать первыми до достижения договоренностей с другой стороной.
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4701676

Still no news at IDEX?

So at MAKS 2021?
https://iz.ru/export/google/amp/1140890?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Resister1976]

NK-32-02 is in the sky, so just about time to build a fighter around it.

Um, no. Mass effectiveness of NK-32 is low and not for fighter-sized aircraft. Plus said mass is for additinal spool intended for long AFB flight, which fughter doesn't need.
If you're going to make an single-engine aircraft, - Izd.30 is a best choice. If it has 180kN thrust as advertised, it's the best contender. Plus unification with Su-57 which would lower overall cost.

hummmm……I‘ve seen a exciting stealth fighter design that prepare to use a NK-32-02.

 

[Geo]

NK-32-02 is in the sky, so just about time to build a fighter around it.

Um, no. Mass effectiveness of NK-32 is low and not for fighter-sized aircraft. Plus said mass is for additinal spool intended for long AFB flight, which fughter doesn't need.
If you're going to make an single-engine aircraft, - Izd.30 is a best choice. If it has 180kN thrust as advertised, it's the best contender. Plus unification with Su-57 which would lower overall cost.

hummmm……I‘ve seen a exciting stealth fighter design that prepare to use a NK-32-02.

That will never happen. Dry NK-32(-02) weights 3600 - 3700 kg. It's much more than double weight of 117 or 30.
Unnecessary thought, abandoned already in 80s/early 90s.

 

[Scar]

So at MAKS 2021?

The "principally new" aircraft mentioned in the article is this.

https://360tv.ru/news/tehnologii/pervyj-v-mire-elektrosamolet-pokazhut-na-maks-2021/

 

[helmutkohl]

any news about a Russian VTOL fighter jet? or was it just a rumor?

 

[Geo]

Here is it!

Sukhoi's new light fighter:
- VLO design
- single engine w TVC
- supermanouverability
- TOW < 18 t
- max. speed > 2M
...
According to previous info it will be a optionally manned machine. Eventually with VC/3S version of Izd. 30 development... Russia's sixth generation ligth? WOW!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/11473935/amp

 

[FighterJock]

Here is it!

Sukhoi's new light fighter:
- VLO design
- single engine w TVC
- supermanouverability
- TOW < 18 t
- max. speed > 2M
...
According to previous info it will be a optionally manned machine. Eventually with VC/3S version of Izd. 30 development... Russia's sixth generation ligth? WOW!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/11473935/amp

So what happens to the MiG light fighter? Or with they be involved in a fly off against each other?

 

[helmutkohl]

is it me or is the TOW a bit lighter than the F-15

 

[QuadroFX]

Russia's sixth generation ligth? WOW!

No, just a "cheap" 5+ gen fighter mostly for foreign market.

 

[Geo]

Russia's sixth generation ligth? WOW!

No, just a "cheap" 5+ gen fighter mostly for foreign market.

Not so cheap, but surely cheaper than Su-57. There is the intention of high degree of unification with Felon.
Ad pic: Unfortunately, there is no new image than this notorious cut from the photo of Borisov's table. Let's wait, just 54 days...

 

[Geo]

Here is it!

Sukhoi's new light fighter:
- VLO design
- single engine w TVC
- supermanouverability
- TOW < 18 t
- max. speed > 2M
...
According to previous info it will be a optionally manned machine. Eventually with VC/3S version of Izd. 30 development... Russia's sixth generation ligth? WOW!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/11473935/amp

So what happens to the MiG light fighter? Or with they be involved in a fly off against each other?

Who knows. But it is likely that MiG is waiting with LMFS for new opportunities. By the way, there are currently interesting discussions in Russia, when the existence of a new deck fighter project is necessary for the building of the new aircraft carrier. MiG works with twin-engine concepts and has gained vast experience with the K/KUB...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/vz.ru/amp/news/2021/5/18/1099731.html

 

[FighterJock]

Here is it!

Sukhoi's new light fighter:
- VLO design
- single engine w TVC
- supermanouverability
- TOW < 18 t
- max. speed > 2M
...
According to previous info it will be a optionally manned machine. Eventually with VC/3S version of Izd. 30 development... Russia's sixth generation ligth? WOW!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/11473935/amp

So what happens to the MiG light fighter? Or with they be involved in a fly off against each other?

Who knows. But it is likely that MiG is waiting with LMFS for new opportunities. By the way, there are currently interesting discussions in Russia, when the existence of a new deck fighter project is necessary for the building of the new aircraft carrier. MiG works with twin-engine concepts and has gained vast experience with the K/KUB...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/vz.ru/amp/news/2021/5/18/1099731.html

Thanks Geo, by the way the new deck fighter project for the new aircraft carrier sounds promising, certainly something to watch out for in the future if the new carriers get funding.

 

[LMFS]

Not so cheap, but surely cheaper than Su-57. There is the intention of high degree of unification with Felon.
Ad pic: Unfortunately, there is no new image than this notorious cut from the photo of Borisov's table. Let's wait, just 54 days...

Having the izd. 30 as engine the export part of it may be also questionable, at least in a first step.
BTW, RIA has reported that the plane will have one ventral intake, so it matches as of now what we saw on Borisov's desk
TWR of 1 by 18 t weight suggests rather clearly that the izd. 30 is indeed a 18 tf engine, not bad (this is consistent with old statements by Marchukov regarding the TWR of the new engine)

So what happens to the MiG light fighter? Or with they be involved in a fly off against each other?

I think Sukhoi goes for the single engine plane using izd. 30 and the PAK-FA technologies, while MiG goes for a 5G plane based on the MiG-29 and maybe using the -35 as risk reduction, this would demand Klimov to develop their own 5G engine or UEC to scale the core of the izd.30. It seemed a given that MiG would take care of this project, but latest news (from Rostec and UEC too) seem to put that into question

 

[GARGEAN]

TWR of 1 by 18 t weight suggests rather clearly that the izd. 30 is indeed a 18 tf engine

Not really. It just shows usual for literally everyone P/W flexing with it being listed at minimal, rarely normal load, and not at MTOW.

 

[trose213]

Not so cheap, but surely cheaper than Su-57. There is the intention of high degree of unification with Felon.
Ad pic: Unfortunately, there is no new image than this notorious cut from the photo of Borisov's table. Let's wait, just 54 days ...

Having the izd. 30 as engine the export part of it may be also questionable, at least in a first step.
BTW, RIA has reported that the plane will have one ventral intake, so it matches as of now what we saw on Borisov's desk
TWR of 1 by 18 t weight suggests rather clearly that the izd. 30 is indeed a 18 tf engine, not bad (this is consistent with old statements by Marchukov regarding the TWR of the new engine)

So what happens to the MiG light fighter? Or with they be involved in a fly off against each other?

I think Sukhoi goes for the single engine plane using izd. 30 and the PAK-FA technologies, while MiG goes for a 5G plane based on the MiG-29 and maybe using the -35 as risk reduction, this would demand Klimov to develop their own 5G engine or UEC to scale the core of the izd .thirty. It seemed a given that MiG would take care of this project, but latest news (from Rostec and UEC too) seem to put that into question

Who's going to pay the development fees? Definitely not the MOD, maybe it's a good option for the UAE if their F-35 buy falls through.

 

[LMFS]

Not really. It just shows usual for literally everyone P/W flexing with it being listed at minimal, rarely normal load, and not at MTOW.

It is far from a hard confirmation I agree. But TWR at empty weight >1 is trivial with essentially any engine and is currently above 1.5 and approaching 2 for the latest models. RIA noted explicitly 18 t was NTOW, which makes sense because such a plane may perfectly have a MTOW slightly above 20 t. Obviously weight empty is not 18 t for a plane that size. Marchukov said long time ago that the new engine would have a specific weight 30% lower than izd. 117S, that means the engine is most likely around 17 -18 tf thrust. It seems a lot but it is increasingly supported by harder and softer evidence

Who's going to pay the development fees? Definitely not the MOD, maybe it's a good option for the UAE if their F-35 buy falls through.

VKS has been talking about a light fighter for ages and offering izd. 30 is not what I would call a cheap export plane. IMHO this is clearly a program waiting for MoD to be convinced to pay for it, as it has almost always been the case with Russian weapons.

 

[Geo]

Really, it's defined: single ventral intake. It would be a nice plane.
https://www.google.cz/amp/s/ria.ru/amp/20210526/istrebitel-1733910712.html

 

[TR1]

I must have missed where VKS decided it is ok with single engine planes again?

 

[Geo]

I must have missed where VKS decided it is ok with single engine planes again?

It's "private" project (Rostec/UAC/Sukhoi) intended primary for foreign customer(s).

 

[LMFS]

I must have missed where VKS decided it is ok with single engine planes again?

Where did they say it is not ok? Genuine question, I have never seen any statement about such doctrine being in place. I guess if you have been flying thousands of single engine fighters for decades, it is a bit peculiar all of a sudden to realize that was not acceptable...

 

[TR1]

I must have missed where VKS decided it is ok with single engine planes again?

Where did they say it is not ok? Genuine question, I have never seen any statement about such doctrine being in place. I guess if you have been flying thousands of single engine fighters for decades, it is a bit peculiar all of a sudden to realize that was not acceptable...

When they retired every single engine type rather promptly post USSR collapse.

 

[LMFS]

When they retired every single engine type rather promptly post USSR collapse.

Those were also the oldest ones in a country that had to cut their armed forces to a fraction of their size, so this is hardly a proof the single engine topic was the key and not the age of the planes. And if it was the engine, it is not hard to understand that not being able to maintain the fleet may play a big role in that decision.

They also cancelled funding on every military program, let their bases rot, not trained their pilots and only kept their strategic forces barely alive, that does not mean that was policy but just emergency measures. There has been discussion about single engine planes and programs around them open by the MoD for decades so I cannot see any clear sign of a twin-engine doctrine being in place.

 

[flanker]

I must have missed where VKS decided it is ok with single engine planes again?

Where did they say it is not ok? Genuine question, I have never seen any statement about such doctrine being in place. I guess if you have been flying thousands of single engine fighters for decades, it is a bit peculiar all of a sudden to realize that was not acceptable...

When they retired every single engine type rather promptly post USSR collapse.

Basically all of them were old as sh!t though. Su-17M4's, what for with Su-24M's around and replacement for Su-24M already in development at that time. (several, actually) MiG-23's? Why with MiG-29's around? MiG-27's? Same but with Su-25. Etc. Army had to shrink so they threw out the most obvious ones.

 

[TR1]

Su-17M3 and M4s were not old, they were produced up until 1990 I think. MiG-23MLD had plenty of service life left as well.

Military drawdown was obviously the biggest part of it, but I think anti-single engine thinking was there as well. I mean on a shoestring budget some single engine types probably would have been cheaper to operate than an entirely big twin-engine force.

EDIT: Not sure if this source is legit or not but it quotes Deynekin, Commander of VVS:

"Как указывал Главком ВВС П. С. Дейнекин, «переход к использованию самолётов, оснащённых двумя — четырьмя двигателями, существенно повысит безопасность полётов»."

Pretty explicit decision to discard single engine types, allegedly due to safety.

https://arsenal-info.ru/b/book/3724573779/18

 

[stealthflanker]

Yeah... the reason at least from what i read in "Famous Russian Aircrafts : MiG-29" Was that double engine types have lesser accident rate than single engine.

 

[LMFS]

Double engine means more incidents but theoretically less of them resulting in a total loss. Not totally true, as proven by operational data, but at least it has a logic to it. And keeping only the newest, most powerful planes and get rid of most of the older, less capable ones together with closing most of their air bases was the only way to avoid Russia's air force from turning into a 3rd world one. Acting that way was as right in that time as it would be absurd now, when VKS is growing, new air bases and regiments are being opened and the need for cheaper abundant planes starts being apparent.

Trying to take the extreme measures and overall neglect of the VVS in the 90's as inherent to Russian military thinking is a complete misconception IMHO.

 

[aonestudio]

TASS EN.

https://tass.com/defense/1293949

 

[Resister1976]

Exciting but not enough!

 

[stealthflanker]

The hypersonic part is kinda make it doubtful

 

[FighterJock]

The hypersonic part is kinda make it doubtful

While I like the sound of a Hypersonic fighter I would take the news with a big dose of salt.

 

[Geo]

The hypersonic part is kinda make it doubtful

Doubtful? It's BS. Unfortunately, even in Russia, the media content is subject to sensationalism in the interests of commerce and the playing of the string of patriotism. It is a pity, Soviet and Russian aviation journalism was of very high quality in the past.

 

[LMFS]

TASS EN.

https://tass.com/defense/1293949

The same news, but in English and with the word "hypersonic" added to it for some reason. Most likely BS

 

[Foo Fighter]

Most likely click bait.

 

[Deino]

Here a bit more realistic...

But now built by Silhouette?? I thought it is a MiG project? ... and any idea how it will be presented at MAKS?

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/2...ew_Single_Engine_Stealth_Fighter#.YK9hnuTuLDs

 

[Geo]

Here a bit more realistic...

But now built by Silhouette?? I thought it is a MiG project? ... and any idea how it will be presented at MAKS?

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/2...ew_Single_Engine_Stealth_Fighter#.YK9hnuTuLDs

It seems that there are indeed two projects, Deino.
One, Sukhoi's "PLIB"or" LFI", is intended for foreign customer.
Second is MiG's "LMFS" with two engines by Klimov.
I personally think that MiG will push its design as a future deck fighter.

 

[Evgeniy]

I personally think that MiG will push its design as a future deck fighter.

Yes, there is no such reason.

Moreover, there is only one promising engine

 

[paralay]

I am sure there will be a single-engine fighter with an engine izd.30. Probably in two variants, horizontal take-off and landing and short take-off and vertical landing for aircraft carrier and universal landing craft