Grey Havoc
ACCESS: USAP
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They considered fitting an OTO 76mm to the Castle class. The gun would cost more than the rest of the ship combined.I agree that 3000 tons seems to be large for a Corvette, but I agree with the maxim steel is cheap air is free. Look at the River class OPV, it would not have cost much more to build a more capable ship - Bofors 57mm or an OTO 76mm and a hangar for the helo, provision for SSM and SAM. I personally regard the Rivers to be to cheap for us to afford.
One of the original proposal for the Castles was a mount based on a L7 tank gun, the original mount was very simple but was considered to be accurate and suitable for the role, but then they started to improve it, planned it to be stabilized and give it power loading which drove the cost through the roof!!They considered fitting an OTO 76mm to the Castle class. The gun would cost more than the rest of the ship combined.I agree that 3000 tons seems to be large for a Corvette, but I agree with the maxim steel is cheap air is free. Look at the River class OPV, it would not have cost much more to build a more capable ship - Bofors 57mm or an OTO 76mm and a hangar for the helo, provision for SSM and SAM. I personally regard the Rivers to be to cheap for us to afford.
The Norwegian Jan Mayen class displace around 9800 tons, whilst China has a pair of 12000 ton Coast Guard Cutters. 3000 tons may end up being the lower end of the scale for ships performing OPV duties.
Eurgh! That's terrible! It looks like a Zumwalt that was kicked in the face!From back in 2020:
Doubtful, given just how badly the concept in general has been discredited. Though that ended up being quite different from its 'Streetfighter' origins I should note in passing.On a more serious note, could it be that the concept of a frigate is moving closer to what an LCS is?
Honestly it's a solid ship for the Greek navy's needs (and budget). Reportedly the total cost of the gowind 2800 and fcx 30 designs comes close to 700 million euros and Greece is in need of a good number of new ships right now. Although indifferent at first the Greek navy has doubled down on participation in the design in the hopes of the epc being cheaper and more closely aligned with their needs. Greek here.Here are 2 recent pictures of the EPC/MMPC from Euronaval.
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/european-patrol-corvette-preliminary-consortium-agreement-signed
A couple of interesting details:
- 2 hull lengths: The “long range” hull for the French and Spanish navies is lengthened in 2 places (+3-4m amidships between the funnels and the RHIBs, and +5-6m behind the secondary gun mounts)
- Modular spaces: Access panels to store 4 containers under the flight deck + 2 containers amidships between the RHIBs with access through the helicopter hangar
- Armament: 57mm or 76mm main gun, 8x anti-ship missiles, 8 VLS (expandable to 16 VLS), 2x 20mm or 30mm cannons (Narwhal or Marlin).
- 3 mast structures: French pyramid-style integrated mast (which puts the ESM antennas and IR sensors high up for increased passive detection horizon) vs. Italian separate radar & ESM masts which puts the radar high up. There is a 3rd option (for the Greek variant?) with a more traditional mast with rotating NS100 style radar
- Stern door for a RHIB ramp or a towed sonar
- No decoy launchers, with not a lot of free deck space available on the basic version to fit them... this will need to be fixed
is a 2022 article.Honestly it's a solid ship for the Greek navy's needs (and budget). Reportedly the total cost of the gowind 2800 and fcx 30 designs comes close to 700 million euros and Greece is in need of a good number of new ships right now. Although indifferent at first the Greek navy has doubled down on participation in the design in the hopes of the epc being cheaper and more closely aligned with their needs. Greek here.
Honestly it's a solid ship for the Greek navy's needs (and budget). Reportedly the cost of the gowind 2800 and fcx 30 designs comes close to 700 million euros and Greece is in need of a good number of new ships right now. Although indifferent at first the Greek navy has doubled down on participation in the design in the hopes of the epc being cheaper and more closely aligned with their needs. Greek here.Here are 2 recent pictures of the EPC/MMPC from Euronaval.
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/european-patrol-corvette-preliminary-consortium-agreement-signed
A couple of interesting details:
- 2 hull lengths: The “long range” hull for the French and Spanish navies is lengthened in 2 places (+3-4m amidships between the funnels and the RHIBs, and +5-6m behind the secondary gun mounts)
- Modular spaces: Access panels to store 4 containers under the flight deck + 2 containers amidships between the RHIBs with access through the helicopter hangar
- Armament: 57mm or 76mm main gun, 8x anti-ship missiles, 8 VLS (expandable to 16 VLS), 2x 20mm or 30mm cannons (Narwhal or Marlin).
- 3 mast structures: French pyramid-style integrated mast (which puts the ESM antennas and IR sensors high up for increased passive detection horizon) vs. Italian separate radar & ESM masts which puts the radar high up. There is a 3rd option (for the Greek variant?) with a more traditional mast with rotating NS100 style radar
- Stern door for a RHIB ramp or a towed sonar
- No decoy launchers, with not a lot of free deck space available on the basic version to fit them... this will need to be fixed
I'm late, I know.is a 2022 article.
Missed this...are the French going to ditch EPC and just buy 6 Gowind?
https://meta-defense.fr/en/2024/05/17/corvette-gowind-floreal-marine-national/
The video interview seems pretty unambiguous that the French MoD has officially selected a Gowind design to replace the Floreals (at t=4m15s)It seems to be entirely based on an interview with Naval Group, which obviously has a preference.
According to MeretMarine, who are usually well informed, there may not be a common EPC design. Instead, the European Defense Fund is paying mainly for “technological bricks” that can be integrated on various national designs, with some design work on a common core.EPC remains an alternative, if only to put pressure on NG.
EPC aims to generate a class of ships adaptable to different national needs through the cooperative development of technological bricks that can be integrated into platforms that will adopt a common core. However, this does not mean that future corvettes, for example French and Italian, will necessarily resemble each other, which will probably not be the case. The European Commission itself wants MMPC to be available in at least two versions. It is in fact likely that this project will result, on the Italian side, in an evolution of the Doha class corvettes and, on the French side, in a new version of the Gowind. No design of the EPC has yet been developed, explains a source close to the case to Mer et Marine. "There is no design yet. All the images of EPC that are circulating do not correspond to anything, they were simply created by certain partners of the project to have something to show".
Regarding these building blocks, the Naviris and Navantia EPC project will focus in particular on reducing the environmental footprint and optimizing energy, multiplier effects including the deployment of drones, flexible zones capable of integrating interchangeable modules, and the use of cloud data. "Call 1 will allow us to develop the technological building blocks and lay the first design foundations for this new class of highly modular, multi-mission ships that must be embodied in several variants in order to meet the needs of each nation."
MMPC includes a second stage, Call 2, which is the subject of a new call for projects. Manufacturers only have a few days left to submit their copy since the deadline for submitting applications is set for November 22, 2023. This next phase should allow the development of the technological building blocks to be completed and, above all, the design of the different versions to be refined. Call 2 will be accompanied by a European subsidy of 154.5 million euros, conditional as for Call 1 on a financial contribution from the participating countries, which will be equivalent to that of the EDF. And, above all, on a commitment from each State to construct ships. The manufacturers leading the EPC project are obviously candidates, but the call for projects is open to other consortia, even if they were not selected for Call 1. It would therefore seem that a Scandinavian proposal is in preparation. Naviris, Navantia and their partners hope in any case to be selected during 2024 with a view to notification of the contract relating to Call 2 at the end of 2025, so as to take over directly from Call 1. This second phase should last four years, which would take the project until the end of 2029.
For France, the timetable as currently planned coincides well with the deadlines set for the six offshore corvettes (CH) that will succeed the surveillance frigates. Included in the military programming law (LPM) 2024-2030, this program should see the new vessels delivered between 2030 and 2035. This therefore suggests a notification at the end of 2025, in order to use the work of Call 1 as a basis and then integrate into the CH development studies those carried out within the framework of Call 2. And, depending on the building blocks selected, to gradually implement them on the platforms. This, while Naval Group is modernizing the industrial tool of its Lorient shipyard in order to be able to produce corvettes in less than 30 months. Which means, for a delivery of the lead ship in 2030, a start of construction hoped for in 2027, knowing that the studies are still continuing during the construction phase
Very impressive build timeline... first steel cut October 2023, keel laying April 2024 and hull now completed, painted and almost ready for launch in the next few months, less than 18 months later.Regarding the Pohjanmaa-class:
They are not calling the Pohjanmaa ships corvettes because of their size. They are corvettes because of what they are expected to do.@Phoenix_jz This is a corvette in name only. 4,400 tons so directly comparable to a French FDI and larger than a Meko A200. Smaller than Mogami, but not my much. Compare timelines from first steel cut (or keel laying) to launch (or sea trials). I expect the first Pohjanmaa will start sea trials summer 2026.
In addition to further sonars to equip additional PPA/MPCSs, EDR Magazine understood that the Italian Navy is considering those sonars for other platforms, such as the Multi-Mission Patrol Corvette (MMPC), while abroad the ATAS is actively promoted in Indonesia to enhance the procured PPA/MPCS capabilities, among campaigns for undisclosed NATO navies. (p.19)
Great find !It also includes a set of graphics for four variants of the EPC - two in the FCM (Full Combat Multipurpose) and LRM (Long Range Multipurpose).
The most obvious differences include the FCM mounting a towed sonar array in the aft modular zone, rather than the rapid launch and recovery mechanism for a RHIB in the LRM variant. Likewise, the FCM have a 76mm and an a single 8-cell VLS module forward, while the LRM only have a lighter (possibly 40mm?) gun system. The FCM also featured anti-ship missiles, while the LRM do not.
A curious feature of the arrangements is that three of the four types (one FCM and both LRM) appear to feature a Mk.49 GMLS for RIM-116 RAM, which 'should' only be used by the Greek FCM variant. Which makes me question exactly how representative of the final protect these renders are supposed to be...
The advantages of corvettes lies in the hardening of armament, because they are equipped with Aster missiles. To speak as a bad sailor, I would say that a corvette has the virtues of a small frigate. This type of ship is better suited than frigates to overseas and its various port infrastructures, which explains why the national navy has chosen to favor corvettes.
Also interesting is this list of design innovations being funded… honestly nothing earth shattering, but the Flex Bay should be useful (with SH Defence participating), as should be the UXV management and interoperability systems.apparently the EPC/MMPC program has had its own website since 1 January 2025.
Link: https://europeanpatrolcorvette.eu/
I don't know. Calling LCS a Corvette in the old sailing sense would be most accurate there, but Americans hear "corvette" and think "car". Which makes it a lot harder to use that word. Especially when the US hasn't had any corvettes since the Age of Sail.I have sometimes pondered, if the USN Littoral combat ships would have been more successful, would that that classification spread out into more general usage? It would have been most ideal fit for Pohjanmaa class.
That's what I suspect.Also interesting is this list of design innovations being funded… honestly nothing earth shattering, but the Flex Bay should be useful (with SH Defence participating), as should be the UXV management and interoperability systems.
Most of the “innovations” listed though already exist… so likely just incremental improvements. Also a lot of this appears to be duplicating work that Fincantieri and/or Naval Group have already done on their own (e.g. data centers/cybersecurity, virtual reality enhanced vision systems etc)… maybe the goal is just to give some of these next gen systems the stamp of “EU approved” and a larger user base outside their home navy?
Main Highlights of the Conference
The EPC Conference 2025 is a must-attend for the Clients and Partners involved in the Program.
- Program Status Update –Naviris representatives will present the latest developments in the EPC/MMPC project.
- Technological Innovations – Discussions on modular configurations, multi-mission capabilities, and advanced combat systems.
- Industry Collaboration – Strengthening partnerships between European shipyards and defense institutions.
Date: October 30, 2025 Hour: from 3.00 p.m. Location: Seafuture– Conference room 2