IAI Lavi

Just in case of interest, here's the latest progres of my friend's Lavi !

Of special note are the outward canted pylons.

Deino
 

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Deino said:
And reagrding the pylons: YES, the outer wing pylons were canted outward.

Deino
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Hi Deino, I don't think he was doubting, I think he was asking why they canted them outward? I would like to know as well. Was it for aerodynamic reasons, or was it based on where they had to connect the pylon to the wing structure, yet still have the store be able to clear other stores/drop tanks on more inboard pylons?
 
For those interested, part 1 of an article on the Lavi by Shlomo Aloni (translated by Alexis Rocher) is featured in the current Le Fana de L'Aviation, November 2013.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-Desk-Model-Prototype-IAI-LAVI-avion-mee-aviation-/301779231333?hash=item464371a265:g:tUQAAOSw5ZBWLT66
 

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A secret document dated 3 September 1977 mentioned Weizman's "crazy idea" to develop a "post F-16" aircraft with Iran.

https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1977STATE211727_c.html

SUBJECT: FMS SUPPORT OF KFIR PROGRAM AND NEW AIRCRAFT DEVELOPMENT

" 3. I THEN TURNED TO HIS "CRAZY IDEA" CONCERNING JOINT ISRAELI-IRANIAN CO-PRODUCTION OF A POST F-16 AIRCRAFT (WITH OR WITHOUT U.S. ASSISTANCE) "
 
Kobi Richter - Opinion: I Opposed Building Israeli Fighter Jet Based on the Truth
Summary by Alert 5.
Cost and performance killed the Lavi
Kobi Richter, the former Israeli Air Force Weapons Department head, wrote this op-ed on why he had supported the decision to cancel the indigenous Lavi fighter.
He explained that the development team was having financial woes in completing the program, in order to meet the target of delivering the aircraft to the air force, sacrifices have to be made on the jet’s performance. This will lead to a platform that is similar to the F-16.
Israel will also have to build up the support system for 200 Lavis and this will put further strain on the budget. The F-16 was already inducted into service with the necessary ground support in place.
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Read more (paywall) at: https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.815182
 
Nice find! Thanks.
 
Very nice, would have been a very good lightweight air to air and air to ground aircraft. reading the document, see all the different configurations was very interesting. The twin-tailboom configuration had very good AOA performance but the single tail was considered more low risk structurally and time-wise. Maybe a future Lavi follow on would have been twin tailed! For the price, was a phenomenal design.

View: https://youtu.be/SNJccWgDl10
 
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overscan (PaulMM) said:
Merged some Lavi topics.

Here's some nice art of the single seat Lavi. Source: Facebook Lavi Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/1604870129783904
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I know that this is historically not true but Lavi really looks like the love child of F-16A and J-10A.

This isn't to say that the design was handed over to the Chinese (since they've been working on delta wing designs for a long time by then) but rather I find it interesting that in the 80s and 90s everyone except the US went for delta wing designs.

I mean, what could be the conceptual reason for it? I can't think of a convergent requirement that both multiple different European countries and PRC would need at the end of the Cold War. Even if it was under a different politixal climate, countries at such different geographical ends of the world would possibly not be in need for similar aircraft performance-wise.
 
Delta wings are easier to design: they are thick, extensively supported by available scientific literature, short span (less fluttering), less prone to torsion and inherently sturby (structure).

This is why they were everywhere when we started to go beyond Mach1 and are still present today.

Then, when I look at a J-10, the only thing I see, personally, is a Mirage 2000 wing...
 
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I stumble across this unique picture of an IAI Lavi , which include a note of a Vietnamese general that witnessed its flight ,probably in 1997. Vietnam and Israel only established diplomatic relationship in 1993, so this picture had to be taken between that time , while the Lavi got canceled in the 80s. Anyone has any information about this flight , or the visit of such general (Nguyen Duc Soat) during this time ?
IMG_7475.jpeg
 
TomcatViP said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyễn_Đức_Soát
https://m.vovworld.vn/en-US/persona...force-1159786.vov#ref-https://www.google.com/
Menahem shmul, in hebrew, refers to a position of Master teacher (think Master Jedi)
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Menahem Shmul wrote the above note on the picture. I knew him very well and was a good friend. You will not find a better man. He was chief test pilot for IAI, and an ace from the 6 day war. We spent quite a bit of time in the late 1990's and early 2000's. We were on a couple of programs together. I lost contact with him in the last 6 to 7 years. Unable to reach him, I suspect he may be flying the ultimate bird that does not need refueling. He was know in Israel as their "Chuck Yeager", and retired a brigadier general from IAI, I believe. As a side note, he is the only person I know post 9-11 that brought his cockpit side arm through the St. Louis security without getting caught. I picked him up outside departure and he was laughing how he was able to seek it through - LOL. I doubt they would have held him long if caught. He was considered rather special on certain areas of the "hill."

I knew the primary design team for the Lavi. They were quite a group of guys and several gals. It was a special aircraft but lost to US politics. I knew of the demo flight for Soat, but no real details.

Sorry for the pontification, but I thought the world of Menahem. He taught me more than anyone could believe.
 
djfawcett said:
Menahem Shmul wrote the above note on the picture. I knew him very well and was a good friend. You will not find a better man. He was chief test pilot for IAI, and an ace from the 6 day war. We spent quite a bit of time in the late 1990's and early 2000's. We were on a couple of programs together. I lost contact with him in the last 6 to 7 years. Unable to reach him, I suspect he may be flying the ultimate bird that does not need refueling. He was know in Israel as their "Chuck Yeager", and retired a brigadier general from IAI, I believe. As a side note, he is the only person I know post 9-11 that brought his cockpit side arm through the St. Louis security without getting caught. I picked him up outside departure and he was laughing how he was able to seek it through - LOL. I doubt they would have held him long if caught. He was considered rather special on certain areas of the "hill."

I knew the primary design team for the Lavi. They were quite a group of guys and several gals. It was a special aircraft but lost to US politics. I knew of the demo flight for Soat, but no real details.

Sorry for the pontification, but I thought the world of Menahem. He taught me more than anyone could believe.
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Thanks you for this information !! Do you know when did this flight happen ?
 
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HorusLupercal2077 said:
Thanks you for this information !! Do you know when did this flight happen ?
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I am sorry but I really do not remember when the flight occurred. I learned about the flight a couple of decades ago, and I am having difficulty remembering any real details. To be honest, I never did have many details. The discussion I had with Menahem was not of any length concerning Soat.
 
HorusLupercal2077 said:
I stumble across this unique picture of an IAI Lavi , which include a note of a Vietnamese general that witnessed its flight ,probably in 1997. Vietnam and Israel only established diplomatic relationship in 1993, so this picture had to be taken between that time , while the Lavi got canceled in the 80s. Anyone has any information about this flight , or the visit of such general (Nguyen Duc Soat) during this time ?
View attachment 770496
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Update: one of my friend found a Vietnamese article which include an interview of General Soat, and he confirm his flight with the LAVI actually happened. Sadly he didn’t reveal the time or reason of such flight during that interview https://znews.vn/bai-hoc-tu-bau-troi-cua-phi-cong-huyen-thoai-nguyen-duc-soat-post1518395.html
 

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