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Author Topic: Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Projects, Derivatives & Successors  (Read 10194 times)

Offline Jemiba

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Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Projects, Derivatives & Successors
« on: September 23, 2006, 06:54:39 am »
The MS.406 had the chin radiator and a retractable radiator under the wing.
Follow on models like the 408, 410 and 412 had just fixed chin radiators, but I
couldn't find any mentioning of the MS.420 and 440. But as this surely is war/pre-
war stuff, it's not exactly my field of interest and I can live with it ..  ;D
But if the Morane-Saulnier designation system followed at least some kind of a rule,
then the MS.530 must have been a post-war project and then I'll give my right
arm to get to know it !  Which source ? Any drawings ??
But as it is described as a parasol training a/c (not really up to date in the post war
world) , I'm a little bit afraid, that it's just a typing error of 230 ...
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 02:02:35 am by Jemiba »
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Offline Nick Sumner

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Re: Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Projects, Derivatives & Successors
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2006, 06:11:01 pm »
Jemiba, the Vanneau was based on a fighter design was it not? any idea what engine it would have used as a fighter?

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Projects, Derivatives & Successors
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2006, 09:03:29 pm »
The Vanneau was based on the MS.406, as far as I know, with a Hispano
Suiza HS-12Y engine and the first variant, the MS.470 had an 12X engine.
THis engine seems to have been proposed for the later, unbuilt MS.473
again.   
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Offline Jemiba

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Re: Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Projects, Derivatives & Successors
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2010, 05:18:17 am »
From Jaques Moulin via the french aeroforum, I've got the side view and datasheet of
a Morane-Saulnier fighter type designated "MS.640". It has much in common with the
MS.540 (swiss designation FFA Althenhein D.3802), but radiator and landing gear are different,
the latter looks very much like that of the MS.470-479 Vanneau. The designation number could (?)
suggest a post-war type, but with a Hispano-Suiza 12Z it would have been a little bit underpowered
during the beginning jet age and it probably isn't wise to rely on the chronology of those designation.
Anybody, who can shed some more light on it ?
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Offline hesham

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Re: Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Projects, Derivatives & Successors
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2010, 10:02:42 am »
Great find my dear Jemiba,

it is very interesting to get info about MS projects and little known aircraft
such as MS.420 fighter and MS.440 night fighter.

Offline Hardrada55

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Re: Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Projects, Derivatives & Successors
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2010, 01:06:25 pm »
Looks similar to the MS. 460....


Offline airman

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Re: Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Projects, Derivatives & Successors
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2010, 02:27:58 pm »
ms.460 and ms.640 are very similar : could be ms.640 an advanced trainer variant ? ???
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Offline Jemiba

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Re: Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Projects, Derivatives & Successors
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2010, 09:35:20 pm »
Probably not, as it is said to have been powered by the Hispano Suiza 12Z, a
more powerful version of 12Y, envisaged for the 460. The 12Z appeared too late
to be used by aircraft for the french airforce during the war, but later versions
were still produced after 1945 and used, for example in the HA-1112. But that's
only a piece of circumstantial evidence, that the 640 could have been a post-war
design, maybe as an alternative to the 540/D.3802 for export ? That could (!) explain,
too, the quite odd designation, as in the 600s series, I only know civil light a/c still
yet. But again, the judge would say "Verdict : Not guilty due to lack of evidence"
and, well, I know, that in this field I'm endangered to give in to the temptation to believe
in something, just because I want to believe it !   ::)

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Offline Nick Sumner

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Re: Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Projects, Derivatives & Successors
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2010, 03:13:11 am »
Although we only have a side elevation of the MS 640 to my eye the shape of the wing looks quite different from that of the MS 460. It more closely resembles the Vanneau IMHO.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Projects, Derivatives & Successors
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2010, 05:17:07 am »
Exactly, and this suggestion seems (!) to be supported by the landing gear with its
pivoting main wheels. The overlay could (!) show, that the MS.640 actually was the fighter
version of the MS.470, or vice versa, maybe limiting the time of its birth to around 1943 (or
later) when the design of the 470 began.
And the top view looks similar to the Vanneau, too.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 01:58:13 am by Jemiba »
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Offline toura

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Re: Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Projects, Derivatives & Successors
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2010, 08:25:57 am »
Hi all
About the ms 420, I've found something I DON'T KNOW ?
look at
http://aerophile.over-blog.com/article-un-projet-improbable-le-morane-saulnier-420-c1
bye

Offline toura

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Re: Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Projects, Derivatives & Successors
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2010, 08:56:44 am »
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 09:44:55 am by Jemiba »

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Projects, Derivatives & Successors
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2010, 09:54:38 am »
Many thanks Paul,
for this type (an easter egg for Tophe !   ;) ) and for pointing to this blog !
And the MS.420 shows, that designation numbers aren't a reliable way, to
determine the time a design was drawn.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline lark

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Re: Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Projects, Derivatives & Successors
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2010, 09:53:14 am »
In the mean time, there's more info about the MS.640 project
and 540 on the site mentioned by Toura...

Offline airman

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